Mackie Onyx users -
- Thread starter Charli
- Start date
Charli,
The MixPre isn't bad, though it is at the low-end of great mixers. I'm currently using a Mackie 1202 (not an Onyx model) but will be going to a 1620 Onyx shortly. They are a great value, good mixers, and if you add the firewire option, can be used (with a Mac) with recording software like Metacorder and/or Boom Recorder for multi-track recording. There are good deals all the time for Onyx mixers on eBay. It goes back to price/performance. Is it as good and flexible as a Cooper or Sonosax? Nope, but it isn't $15,000 either. (I still have a really hard time understanding what makes a Cooper mixer worth that much...I suppose if I used one sometime I'd know...) ;-)
I recently saw a post from a well-respected mixer (can't remember whether it was RAMPS or Jeff's site) that is using an Onyx in big budget production stuff and is liking it.
FWIW.
Phil
The MixPre isn't bad, though it is at the low-end of great mixers. I'm currently using a Mackie 1202 (not an Onyx model) but will be going to a 1620 Onyx shortly. They are a great value, good mixers, and if you add the firewire option, can be used (with a Mac) with recording software like Metacorder and/or Boom Recorder for multi-track recording. There are good deals all the time for Onyx mixers on eBay. It goes back to price/performance. Is it as good and flexible as a Cooper or Sonosax? Nope, but it isn't $15,000 either. (I still have a really hard time understanding what makes a Cooper mixer worth that much...I suppose if I used one sometime I'd know...) ;-)
I recently saw a post from a well-respected mixer (can't remember whether it was RAMPS or Jeff's site) that is using an Onyx in big budget production stuff and is liking it.
FWIW.
Phil
Charli
cool little "title"
Thanks for the info. The MixPre is what it is, a small portable mixer. I think I want
something a little more substantial, so I'm investigating right now. My goal is to
have as much of my gear in place by fall to start filmming my first short. I have
one more draft to go before I show my script to my crew and off we go.
So thanks for the advice, it really helps.
Charli
something a little more substantial, so I'm investigating right now. My goal is to
have as much of my gear in place by fall to start filmming my first short. I have
one more draft to go before I show my script to my crew and off we go.
So thanks for the advice, it really helps.
Charli
timapter
Veteran
Charli, just watch out - a lot of shorts have absolutely NO NEED for a big, cart based rig. It can be very limiting for a few reasons:
1) power - you need either a power line all the time, or an expensive BDS system to power a cart rig
2) man power - these cart rigs rely on at LEAST a skilled two person team. it doesnt help anything if the sound mixer has to keep running over to the boom op to show them hold to aim and hold the boom, it just wastes time and gives the mixer sore feet.
to get the maximum results from these rigs (which can be really effective), you need two skilled AUDIO ONLY people.
3) footprint - these systems take up more space. short films tend to be lower budget, and hence can limit you in terms of how many crew and space you will have to work with (eg, you're working in someones lounge - for shorts, normally the whole crew would be in there, for a feature the sound man might be outside the house!
). Bigger rigs like these also take time and space to move, and cant even be USED in some cases - car rigs, run and gun, steadicam, etc etc.
4) recording - if you plan to record audio to the camera, its pointless to go with a cart unless you have umbilicals and think its worth while. most times, its not.
Hope some of this info helps... FWIW, Im also going to be buying an Onyx soon, for all the same reasons as Phil mentioned above.
1) power - you need either a power line all the time, or an expensive BDS system to power a cart rig
2) man power - these cart rigs rely on at LEAST a skilled two person team. it doesnt help anything if the sound mixer has to keep running over to the boom op to show them hold to aim and hold the boom, it just wastes time and gives the mixer sore feet.
to get the maximum results from these rigs (which can be really effective), you need two skilled AUDIO ONLY people.3) footprint - these systems take up more space. short films tend to be lower budget, and hence can limit you in terms of how many crew and space you will have to work with (eg, you're working in someones lounge - for shorts, normally the whole crew would be in there, for a feature the sound man might be outside the house!
). Bigger rigs like these also take time and space to move, and cant even be USED in some cases - car rigs, run and gun, steadicam, etc etc.4) recording - if you plan to record audio to the camera, its pointless to go with a cart unless you have umbilicals and think its worth while. most times, its not.
Hope some of this info helps... FWIW, Im also going to be buying an Onyx soon, for all the same reasons as Phil mentioned above.
Hey Tim,
Don't knock cart-based mixing for low budget shorts. I do it all the time. Even when it's me and a PA-boom op, usually just a little teaching (and more forgiving mics) goes a long way. And, even when I'm going direct into the camera (usually, though, I can convince them to go double system and use the camera track as a scratch track, often just a wireless hop in a situation where you don't really care if there are a few drop outs and/or occasional interference.)
But, since I don't charge by the piece of equipment (i.e. my rental fee is for everything in my kit) I can set up a full setup, including Comteks, etc. without impacting the budget. And yes, I know, I'm leaving money on the table, and no one does it this way, etc., but in low budget situations, I'd rather know that I can deliver the best sound I can without haggling over adding another wireless kit, etc.
And, space has never been a problem. Quite often I'm a couple of rooms away, or occasionally outside, but I have a monitor, and lots of cable, so it has never been a problem.
Anyway, just my $.02. ;-)
Phil
Don't knock cart-based mixing for low budget shorts. I do it all the time. Even when it's me and a PA-boom op, usually just a little teaching (and more forgiving mics) goes a long way. And, even when I'm going direct into the camera (usually, though, I can convince them to go double system and use the camera track as a scratch track, often just a wireless hop in a situation where you don't really care if there are a few drop outs and/or occasional interference.)
But, since I don't charge by the piece of equipment (i.e. my rental fee is for everything in my kit) I can set up a full setup, including Comteks, etc. without impacting the budget. And yes, I know, I'm leaving money on the table, and no one does it this way, etc., but in low budget situations, I'd rather know that I can deliver the best sound I can without haggling over adding another wireless kit, etc.
And, space has never been a problem. Quite often I'm a couple of rooms away, or occasionally outside, but I have a monitor, and lots of cable, so it has never been a problem.
Anyway, just my $.02. ;-)
Phil
timapter
Veteran
No, fair enough Phil, and there are loads of situations I can see a cart based system working out just fine on a low budget shoot.
But keep in mind that you are experienced and know what you are doing... Those points I brought up were more a "be careful about running before walking" sort of thing for Charli...
But keep in mind that you are experienced and know what you are doing... Those points I brought up were more a "be careful about running before walking" sort of thing for Charli...
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Charli,
First I would ask if you need more than two channels? If not save the money. The Mix pre is really a portable Preamp with signal routing capabilities more than a mixer. But it is a very good preamp and has a few extras that you won't find on many real mixers at anywhere close to the price. Like very good limiters a huge plus and slate mic a sometimes big plus and some times not much use and adjustable roll off. Also I'm not sure what you consider toy like about it but you could drive a car over it and still use it, it's built like a tank. But it would not be my first (or second) choice for a cart mixer. It sort of comes down to what you want to do in the end. If it's be a production sound person well then by all means start building up the kit. But if it's more in the directing/ writing area then I would get someone who wants to do sound and let them invest in the rig. If your not going to be doing sound for a living there are a lot of better things to spend that $10K -$30K that you are likely to blow before you have a fully set up cart rig.
First I would ask if you need more than two channels? If not save the money. The Mix pre is really a portable Preamp with signal routing capabilities more than a mixer. But it is a very good preamp and has a few extras that you won't find on many real mixers at anywhere close to the price. Like very good limiters a huge plus and slate mic a sometimes big plus and some times not much use and adjustable roll off. Also I'm not sure what you consider toy like about it but you could drive a car over it and still use it, it's built like a tank. But it would not be my first (or second) choice for a cart mixer. It sort of comes down to what you want to do in the end. If it's be a production sound person well then by all means start building up the kit. But if it's more in the directing/ writing area then I would get someone who wants to do sound and let them invest in the rig. If your not going to be doing sound for a living there are a lot of better things to spend that $10K -$30K that you are likely to blow before you have a fully set up cart rig.
Charli
cool little "title"
Thanks for all of your suggestions. I have an authorize dealer for the Mackie
who will give me a good price, but am holding off on that, for now. As suggested,
I'll walk before I run.
In the end, I might have both. The MixPre just has a pop volume. I worked on a
pro mixer downtown and though I'm not a sound engineer, I could equalize the
audio during studio recording. With the MixPre it's sound up or sound down. That's
the only reason I think it's a toy, one knob, that's it.
Walk before I run - good advice.
Charli
who will give me a good price, but am holding off on that, for now. As suggested,
I'll walk before I run.
In the end, I might have both. The MixPre just has a pop volume. I worked on a
pro mixer downtown and though I'm not a sound engineer, I could equalize the
audio during studio recording. With the MixPre it's sound up or sound down. That's
the only reason I think it's a toy, one knob, that's it.
Walk before I run - good advice.
Charli
timapter
Veteran
cool, good luck.
One thing Ive come to realise about audio is that most of my concerns exist in the mic placement world, not the "fader up/fader down" world. Faders arent such a big deal, its what is going into them.
In a lot of ways the mixpre/302/442 systems arent mixers so much as preamps with variable "ON" levels. I dont often mix on them other than riding gain to give more pop to low level sections...
This show Im on at the moment, the most I do is half fade out a character as they walk off screen so that if the editor wants a mono sum, it still feels realistic. Thats just a timesaver for them, not even important really.
Good luck charli
One thing Ive come to realise about audio is that most of my concerns exist in the mic placement world, not the "fader up/fader down" world. Faders arent such a big deal, its what is going into them.
In a lot of ways the mixpre/302/442 systems arent mixers so much as preamps with variable "ON" levels. I dont often mix on them other than riding gain to give more pop to low level sections...
This show Im on at the moment, the most I do is half fade out a character as they walk off screen so that if the editor wants a mono sum, it still feels realistic. Thats just a timesaver for them, not even important really.
Good luck charli
wabbit
Evil has Ears
Charli said:
Pretty much tape over all but the faders when using a cart mixer anyways as you almost NEVER use those on location recordings. A little low and high pass, sure, but don't be fiddling with the frequencies on location. Nothing good can happen by doing that (except in a few unique circumstances).
cheers
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
As a rule you should not be doing equalizing etc on location. It's one of the big differences between music recording and film recording. In music you are often trying to get the finished sound, with film your trying to get really good source material for the editors. It's almost impossible to make good choices on EQ etc since you really have no idea what the scene will end up sounding like and what post will want to do with the sound. And with all the other things that you have to keep track of etc it's really not something you can spend enough attention on.