I've only ever used a sony handycam before, but I would like to upgrade and start making things this summer. Does anyone have suggestions for something that would work well both for docs and films? I was doing some reading and sounds like DSLR's are not the best for docs because of difficulty with audio setup. Thanks for any help!
Looking for suggestions for a <$2,000 camera for docs and short films
- Thread starter pedroj012
- Start date
DPStewart
Veteran
Well, for under $2,000 really the only thing I can think of that isn't an insult is a used Panasonic HMC150. It's like a full-sized PRO handycam. It has everything you need to just turn it on and hit record. NO DSLR can do that.
Check one out here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-A...171?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c5199b913
It may be an older design but it's expensive when new. Plus, it's a tough camera built for a lot of use.
Another great part about its older design is that it does not have a CMOS sensor chip which means NO ROLLING SHUTTER!
The microphone on it will get you nice results, and when you need to get a mic closer to your subject - just plug one right into the camera. Done.
Built-in ND filters to lessen the bright light when shooting outside too. A great quality zoom lens.
Everything you need really.
For ONE camera under $2,000 I really can't think of anything else I'd bother with if you want to just get right to shooting without buying all sorts of other peripheral attachments and separate stuff to connect just to make it do what this camera already does.
So how does this one look to you?
Maybe you're after something else you could tell us about.
Check one out here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-A...171?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c5199b913
It may be an older design but it's expensive when new. Plus, it's a tough camera built for a lot of use.
Another great part about its older design is that it does not have a CMOS sensor chip which means NO ROLLING SHUTTER!
The microphone on it will get you nice results, and when you need to get a mic closer to your subject - just plug one right into the camera. Done.
Built-in ND filters to lessen the bright light when shooting outside too. A great quality zoom lens.
Everything you need really.
For ONE camera under $2,000 I really can't think of anything else I'd bother with if you want to just get right to shooting without buying all sorts of other peripheral attachments and separate stuff to connect just to make it do what this camera already does.
So how does this one look to you?
Maybe you're after something else you could tell us about.
David W. Jones
Veteran
To be honest, you are still going to need appropriate audio gear no matter which camera you end up choosing.
nyvz
Veteran
It really depends on your style of shooting and priorities. Is the most important thing to you image quality at a low price, ergonomics, quick adjustments on the fly, good internal audio, or what?
Personally I'd never choose an HMC150 since image quality is very important to me. Though if you've only ever used a handycam before and don't want or have time to learn a new way of working, the HMC might be pretty comfortable since it is essentially an aging prosumer handycam...
Are you opposed to the DSLR/mirrorless formfactor? What formfactor do you prefer? Does $2k include your budget for lenses, accessories, and sound equipment?
I might think about looking into a used Sony FS100 or a Sony A7S, but those will be the top of your range and will need a lens on top of the camera body. Frankly if you are looking at a small-sensor camera I would say you shouldn't settle for anything less than a used Sony EX1.
Personally I'd never choose an HMC150 since image quality is very important to me. Though if you've only ever used a handycam before and don't want or have time to learn a new way of working, the HMC might be pretty comfortable since it is essentially an aging prosumer handycam...
Are you opposed to the DSLR/mirrorless formfactor? What formfactor do you prefer? Does $2k include your budget for lenses, accessories, and sound equipment?
I might think about looking into a used Sony FS100 or a Sony A7S, but those will be the top of your range and will need a lens on top of the camera body. Frankly if you are looking at a small-sensor camera I would say you shouldn't settle for anything less than a used Sony EX1.
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ddixon
Well-known member
Sony X70? Very good quality, 10 bit 4:2:2 in-camera, XLRs, NDs, 1 inch sensor gives at least *some* shallow DOF, etc. currently $1999
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=sony+pxw-x70&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ps
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=sony+pxw-x70&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ps
DPStewart
Veteran
Interesting. Didn't know about this one.
I'd like to see footage to see how it looks.
Between this and the HMC150 it's kind of a toss up. Each has a couple things the other does better.
1. The Sony has a larger sensor that can get a little more of a shallow depth of field look, but it's still not a lot, and it will suffer from rolling shutter or "jello" on fast movement. Also any flashes of light in your footage - like people taking flash pictures at weddings and concerts - gets chopped into pieces on the rolling shutter screen. Personally I hate that and don't know why the industry has put up with it for so long now.
2. Folks mention that on the Sony the White Balancing (which is important to each shot) needs to be accessed through menus. On the HMC150 it's done just by pushing a button on the front of the camera, you don't even have to take your eye away from the viewfinder.
3. The Sony only has one ring on the lens - you can only do focus or zoom. To do the other you have to flip a switch.
The Sony is $2000 new. The Panasonic was recently discontinued but was $3,500 new and as we see, can be had for a bit less than the Sony if that is important to you right now.
I would be entirely comfortable using the HMC150 anytime. The Sony I would have to put through its paces before I could say the same.
Do read the user reviews of each at B&H Photo's pages. Other people's opinions are not proper reviews, but they can give you an idea of things to expect if you read enough of them.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._AG_HMC150PJU_AG_HMC150_AVCCAM_Camcorder.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1072752-REG/sony_pxw_x70_professional_xdcam_compact.html
abreu-canedo
Well-known member
Pedroj012,
heres a few things you should consider, to help you make your decision:
-Form factor. What does your camera body need to look like for you to work the way you want to work. Do you want the camera on your shoulder 80-100% of the time? Do you want a more hand-held (in front of your face, chest, or fluidly moving with your arms)? Or will you be on tripods mostly? DSLRs won't be the most budget friendly if you need the camera on your shoulder a lot. But for handheld and tripod work, they can save you money on mounting equipment and are easy to hand-hold...although nice handheld with light cameras requires lots of practice.
-Can you sync sound in post, or do you need to have it synced in camera. This will determine whether you can compromise on audio inputs and preamps in your camera body and go external sound...which can be cheaper.
-What do you expect to be shooting mostly? External daylight? Lit interiors? Low light? This can help you compromise on your camera's sensor capabilities. If you're shooting mostly daylight exteriors, you can choose something with higher dynamic range, while sacrificing low light capabilities...or vice versa. Not that these are necessary opposites.
-Lenses. Do you need a servo zoom and auto focus capabilities or do you prefer to shoot manually with interchangeable lenses...or what combination of these? If zoom rocker and auto focus are important to you, you might consider either a fixed lens camcorder, or a system that offers those lenses affordably. But if you want freedom to change lenses and will mostly shoot manually, then you might be better off with a system where you can use your own lenses. Vintage manual photo lenses can have pretty good quality and be pretty cheap!
-Post workflow. Will you need to color and grade heavily? If so, you might want a camera that can shoot 10bit or higher. But if you're not going to do a lot of coloring work and are going to rely on the images as the come out of the camera, then you might be able to compromise on bit depth, stick to 8bit, and just choose something that gives you the look you want in camera.
Lastly, I'd say that you also should be clear with yourself about what your budget is. If $2K is your total budget and it needs to provide you with the images you want, the sound you want, and the working style you want, then this budget needs to accound for audio, lenses, memory, support...oh yeah, and also a camera. But if your $2K is just for the camera, then it will alter how you think about the criterias above.
I hope this helps. Also, if you articulate these parameters to the forum, you might even get more helpful feedback.
-Best of luck, Rafael
heres a few things you should consider, to help you make your decision:
-Form factor. What does your camera body need to look like for you to work the way you want to work. Do you want the camera on your shoulder 80-100% of the time? Do you want a more hand-held (in front of your face, chest, or fluidly moving with your arms)? Or will you be on tripods mostly? DSLRs won't be the most budget friendly if you need the camera on your shoulder a lot. But for handheld and tripod work, they can save you money on mounting equipment and are easy to hand-hold...although nice handheld with light cameras requires lots of practice.
-Can you sync sound in post, or do you need to have it synced in camera. This will determine whether you can compromise on audio inputs and preamps in your camera body and go external sound...which can be cheaper.
-What do you expect to be shooting mostly? External daylight? Lit interiors? Low light? This can help you compromise on your camera's sensor capabilities. If you're shooting mostly daylight exteriors, you can choose something with higher dynamic range, while sacrificing low light capabilities...or vice versa. Not that these are necessary opposites.
-Lenses. Do you need a servo zoom and auto focus capabilities or do you prefer to shoot manually with interchangeable lenses...or what combination of these? If zoom rocker and auto focus are important to you, you might consider either a fixed lens camcorder, or a system that offers those lenses affordably. But if you want freedom to change lenses and will mostly shoot manually, then you might be better off with a system where you can use your own lenses. Vintage manual photo lenses can have pretty good quality and be pretty cheap!
-Post workflow. Will you need to color and grade heavily? If so, you might want a camera that can shoot 10bit or higher. But if you're not going to do a lot of coloring work and are going to rely on the images as the come out of the camera, then you might be able to compromise on bit depth, stick to 8bit, and just choose something that gives you the look you want in camera.
Lastly, I'd say that you also should be clear with yourself about what your budget is. If $2K is your total budget and it needs to provide you with the images you want, the sound you want, and the working style you want, then this budget needs to accound for audio, lenses, memory, support...oh yeah, and also a camera. But if your $2K is just for the camera, then it will alter how you think about the criterias above.
I hope this helps. Also, if you articulate these parameters to the forum, you might even get more helpful feedback.
-Best of luck, Rafael
Thanks for the responses!
To answer a few questions.
I was thinking $2,000 total for camera and equipment, but I think I could probably go up to $2500 for everything
I'm currently thinking about shooting a documentary where I'll be outside and inside filming people doing anything/everything at any time of day (playing chess, skateboarding, racing, protesting, making dinner). So I guess I would most likely be looking for something that is okay at doing everything, instead of something that is amazing at one thing and not great with anything else.
Because I could be doing anything/everything - I was assuming I would be shooting hand-held most of the time, but I hadn't thought about shooting on my shoulder - looks like that would make it a lot more stable.
I'm assuming that because I'm going to be doing this on the fly, it would make more sense to use something where I don't need to be able to switch lenses, but let me know if that's wrong.
I'm very new to all of the options that seem to be available, so it sounds like I need to do a bunch more research on various features. Like I don't know what 10bit (number of pixels?) refers to...or 4:2:2
To answer a few questions.
I was thinking $2,000 total for camera and equipment, but I think I could probably go up to $2500 for everything
I'm currently thinking about shooting a documentary where I'll be outside and inside filming people doing anything/everything at any time of day (playing chess, skateboarding, racing, protesting, making dinner). So I guess I would most likely be looking for something that is okay at doing everything, instead of something that is amazing at one thing and not great with anything else.
Because I could be doing anything/everything - I was assuming I would be shooting hand-held most of the time, but I hadn't thought about shooting on my shoulder - looks like that would make it a lot more stable.
I'm assuming that because I'm going to be doing this on the fly, it would make more sense to use something where I don't need to be able to switch lenses, but let me know if that's wrong.
I'm very new to all of the options that seem to be available, so it sounds like I need to do a bunch more research on various features. Like I don't know what 10bit (number of pixels?) refers to...or 4:2:2
photochris
Well-known member
A few things...
With the X70 you can zoom with the rocker and focus with the ring, just a different way of doing things. The X70 has a 3 step ND, its on the back of the cam, it also has external buttons that are customizable and individual buttons for Iris, Gain and Shutter Speed with the usual Sony way of pushing the button and rotating a control wheel to make changes. It would be nice to have all of them on separate rings, but it works well once you get used to it. The one major drawback is the lack of mic, most Sony's with XLR's come with a pretty decent on cam mic, this is one of the typical cheap moves by Sony. The X70 also does slow and quick modes for great slow-mo or timelapse type stuff. You can also drop the handle and lens shade for a fairly compact setup. It also does 60p. I wouldn't shoot a doc without a good slow-mo option.
The RX10 is basically a more photo friendly, less video oriented version of this camera for about $800. Pair it with a gopro, and a few audio bits, some small lighting and you have a nice small kit with good IQ. Get a monopod to stabilize handheld footage, I use the Manfrotto video monopod and its great. Famed National Geographic photographer Bob Krist uses the RX10 as his jack-of-all-trades camera and many times its his main camera. His work speaks for itself.
http://www.oldmaninmotion.com/
Rafael has some great advice and points.
Good luck.
With the X70 you can zoom with the rocker and focus with the ring, just a different way of doing things. The X70 has a 3 step ND, its on the back of the cam, it also has external buttons that are customizable and individual buttons for Iris, Gain and Shutter Speed with the usual Sony way of pushing the button and rotating a control wheel to make changes. It would be nice to have all of them on separate rings, but it works well once you get used to it. The one major drawback is the lack of mic, most Sony's with XLR's come with a pretty decent on cam mic, this is one of the typical cheap moves by Sony. The X70 also does slow and quick modes for great slow-mo or timelapse type stuff. You can also drop the handle and lens shade for a fairly compact setup. It also does 60p. I wouldn't shoot a doc without a good slow-mo option.
The RX10 is basically a more photo friendly, less video oriented version of this camera for about $800. Pair it with a gopro, and a few audio bits, some small lighting and you have a nice small kit with good IQ. Get a monopod to stabilize handheld footage, I use the Manfrotto video monopod and its great. Famed National Geographic photographer Bob Krist uses the RX10 as his jack-of-all-trades camera and many times its his main camera. His work speaks for itself.
http://www.oldmaninmotion.com/
Rafael has some great advice and points.
Good luck.
STYLZ
Well-known member
That camera puts out a nice image. Had to look it up. Good call.