Looking for some advice on how to end

MakeshiftKnight... how long do you want this film to be? Did it end up only 4 pages by chance or are you specifically looking to keep it that short? Most people will tell you to remove everything you don't need from the script. While that has its merit, it doesn't necessarily mean that shorter is better. I see that from v.1 to v.3 you did a good job of 'trimming the fat', but what you've ended up with is a 4-page, plot-driven story that centers around a moral. There may be some who will disagree with me, but I have seen very few successful (ultra)short films that are either theme-oriented or plot-driven. The reason: not enough time to develop the characters. Unfortunately, I believe your script falls into this category.

I would suggest one of two things: A) Lengthen the script considerably. Give us the opportunity to really get a feeling for who our character is. I would also drop the irony. Unfortunately the script reads like a bad joke; setup, setup, setup... punch line. I don't mean bad because the script is bad, but because it's not funny. Unless you are Rod Serling, you are going to have a difficult time getting away with this kind of irony. And even Rod Serling had a lot more time to pull it off. B) Change your approach altogether. Offer us glimpses into his life, not a linear sequence of events. This will give us the opportunity to really see him for who he is and how he reacts to others in various environments. The current setup just isn't believable. What if he is having a bad day? It doesn't necessarily make him a bad person.

If you prefer to stick to the format that you have, I really believe you should rethink the situations in which you have placed him. The cell phone: If a stranger on the street comes up to me and asks to borrow my cell phone, my first thought is "no way, this guy might grab it and run off". Besides, I would almost NEVER ask to borrow a stranger's cell phone. If I didn't have the change for a payphone (and this has happened to me), I would either walk into a local market and buy a phone card or if I had no money at all, I would call collect. The only scenario I can imagine that would require the use of a stranger's phone is during a medical emergency. If you put our guy into a situation where he witnesses an accident or someone having a heart attack and he walks away unwilling to help, now you have me convinced - he's an @ssh0le. Same goes for the exchange at the newspaper stand. If I'm buying a candy bar and a cup of coffee and it turns out that I'm short a few cents, it is UNTHINKABLE to ask a stranger to give me money. And conversely, if someone asked me for money for a candy bar, I would tell them no. If it were for something that was a necessity, however, that might change things.

Also remember that placing your character only in situations where he looks like an a-hole isn't necessarily the answer. No human being is either all good or all bad. You want your viewers to relate to your character and they can't do that if he is seen simply as a heartless jerk. There needs to be some motivation behind his actions that the audience can understand, even if they don't agree. You can see why it is very difficult to accomplish this is such a short time frame.

You really have to ask yourself what you are going for. Right now, I feel like the driving force behind this script is the ironic ending. He needs to use someone's cell phone and then asks for change just moments after he denied others these exact requests. It fits too perfectly. It is simply not enough. Ask yourself: What do I want my audience to feel? Right now, it seems you are trying to get them to think things such as, "I should be nicer to people" or "That guy was a real a-hole, he got what he deserved" or "What goes around comes around". Frankly, I don't believe they will be thinking any of these things. You are not going to have an impact on the audience if you are just trying to force a moral down their throat. Instead, try making them feel the effects that our character's actions have on others. The audience can then come to these conclusions on their own.

Like I said before, I would drop the irony all together. But if you choose to keep it, please make it more subtle. For instance, his daughter needs help with her homework and he won't take the time to do it, his wife needs him to help with something important and he brushes her off. But later in the film, when he needs something he expects a complete stranger to help despite his unwillingness to help those closest to him.

I tried to stay on point here without going off on too many tangents, but I have been side tracked at least 20 times since I began writing 7 hours ago. So, my apologies if my thoughts seem a little scattered. I know you were only asking how to end the script and I basically told you to rewrite it. Take it for what it's worth. Good luck.
 
I don't think I really have a problem with a lot of your comments, I guess its just difficult to write a script with numerous people "shouting," ; not literally , different ideas to take the story. I guess at the moment I kinda just feel a bit duped. While some say its a great concept in so many words you told me the concept basically sucked. While I can understand a lot of your ideas of where to take the story next I also feel, the script as it is now is one that needs to be well directed / photographed in order to accomplish its goals. I can really see how it could be done badly, but considering I would be directing most likely I feel a little more at ease realizing I'll have a majority of the creative control on the project.

In regards to whether the audience will get it or not, a lot of that depends on the acting. This is a movie like all other successful films which is based mainly on stereotypes of people. In regards to the cell phone incident in the beginning I'm not entirely sure the audience really needs to the man in a huge need of a phone. I'm not trying to show the guy's a complete jerk, but rather just make him take a look at his life. If amp the anty and make it so everything is some huge event, the story becomes less believable. One of the main things I liked so far about the story is that all the occurrences are things that could actually happen. They're not some huge stretch of the imagination. Going back to the cell phone incident at the beginning I never really planned of making these events stand out like sore thumbs, more or less I would film it so these events were quick flashes. Something that Chad never truly realized. But when hes finally pushed into a situation where he needs help, the situation slows and its much more lucid. Getting to the indecent at the newsstand, I really believe that if someone in front of you needed a quarter you would give it to them. I've seen it happen before. Thinking about it maybe I could give her a child and have the child want something, and the mother feels let down that she can't give it to her child. Maybe that would show a bit more.

I was looking for a way to end a few weeks back, but now I'm just really looking to tighten it into something I could shoot and enter into film festivals. I really appreciate the input no matter what I say though, or how I reacted.

IBEJohnson said:
MakeshiftKnight... how long do you want this film to be? Did it end up only 4 pages by chance or are you specifically looking to keep it that short? Most people will tell you to remove everything you don't need from the script. While that has its merit, it doesn't necessarily mean that shorter is better. I see that from v.1 to v.3 you did a good job of 'trimming the fat', but

what you've ended up with is a 4-page, plot-driven story that centers around a moral. There may be some who will disagree with me, but I have seen very few successful (ultra)short films that are either theme-oriented or plot-driven. The reason: not enough time to develop the characters. Unfortunately, I believe your script falls into this category.

I would suggest one of two things: A) Lengthen the script considerably. Give us the opportunity to really get a feeling for who our character is. I would also drop the irony. Unfortunately the script reads like a bad joke; setup, setup, setup... punch line. I don't mean bad because the script is bad, but because it's not funny. Unless you are Rod Serling, you are going to have a difficult time getting away with this kind of irony. And even Rod Serling had a lot more time to pull it off. B) Change your approach altogether. Offer us glimpses into his life, not a linear sequence of events. This will give us the opportunity to really see him for who he is and how he reacts to others in various environments. The current setup just isn't believable. What if he is having a bad day? It doesn't necessarily make him a bad person.

If you prefer to stick to the format that you have, I really believe you should rethink the situations in which you have placed him. The cell phone: If a stranger on the street comes up to me and asks to borrow my cell phone, my first thought is "no way, this guy might grab it and run off". Besides, I would almost NEVER ask to borrow a stranger's cell phone. If I didn't have the change for a payphone (and this has happened to me), I would either walk into a local market and buy a phone card or if I had no money at all, I would call collect. The only scenario I can imagine that would require the use of a stranger's phone is during a medical emergency. If you put our guy into a situation where he witnesses an accident or someone having a heart attack and he walks away unwilling to help, now you have me convinced - he's an @ssh0le. Same goes for the exchange at the newspaper stand. If I'm buying a candy bar and a cup of coffee and it turns out that I'm short a few cents, it is UNTHINKABLE to ask a stranger to give me money. And conversely, if someone asked me for money for a candy bar, I would tell them no. If it were for something that was a necessity, however, that might change things.

Also remember that placing your character only in situations where he looks like an a-hole isn't necessarily the answer. No human being is either all good or all bad. You want your viewers to relate to your character and they can't do that if he is seen simply as a heartless jerk. There needs to be some motivation behind his actions that the audience can understand, even if they don't agree. You can see why it is very difficult to accomplish this is such a short time frame.

You really have to ask yourself what you are going for. Right now, I feel like the driving force behind this script is the ironic ending. He needs to use someone's cell phone and then asks for change just moments after he denied others these exact requests. It fits too perfectly. It is simply not enough. Ask yourself: What do I want my audience to feel? Right now, it seems you are trying to get them to think things such as, "I should be nicer to people" or "That guy was a real a-hole, he got what he deserved" or "What goes around comes around". Frankly, I don't believe they will be thinking any of these things. You are not going to have an impact on the audience if you are just trying to force a moral down their throat. Instead, try making them feel the effects that our character's actions have on others. The audience can then come to these conclusions on their own.

Like I said before, I would drop the irony all together. But if you choose to keep it, please make it more subtle. For instance, his daughter needs help with her homework and he won't take the time to do it, his wife needs him to help with something important and he brushes her off. But later in the film, when he needs something he expects a complete stranger to help despite his unwillingness to help those closest to him.

I tried to stay on point here without going off on too many tangents, but I have been side tracked at least 20 times since I began writing 7 hours ago. So, my apologies if my thoughts seem a little scattered. I know you were only asking how to end the script and I basically told you to rewrite it. Take it for what it's worth. Good luck.
 
Well, I wouldn't say that your concept sucks. But I ask you: what is your concept? If your concept is a movie where you display some of your character's faults and then you suddenly flip the switch on him in some ironic "what goes around, comes around" way, then yeah, I admittedly don't care for it much. There's no substance to that. But, if your concept is to tell a story that will remind people that it is important to take others' needs into consideration, then I think you've really got something. Frankly, I'd like to think you were going for the latter. I simply believe you took the wrong approach, and therefore the script feels like the first example.

I understand that you feel confident in your directing skills. I have no reason to believe you can't direct it well, but at its current form I stand fast to my assessment that it feels like you are attempting to force a moral upon us. When I read the script the first time, the moment Chad refused to give the lady money at the newspaper stand, I knew what was coming. Do you really want that? Do you want your audience to know at that point what it is you are trying to say? For that matter, at any time during the movie, do you want your point to be that overt? That is why I'm asking you to make it more subtle. Give us some character depth. Show us another side of Chad - something that we can relate to.

You said, "If amp the anty and make it so everything is some huge event, the story becomes less believable."

I agree. I was simply offering individual solutions that would make it more believable than the ones you have. But, if you were to keep the same format and go from one emergency to the next, that would be far too much. You mentioned changing the newspaper stand scene so that the woman has a child who wants the candy bar - great idea! Much better than what you have. But, don't let the mother ask Chad for the money. That is still a bit tacky. Most people wouldn't react well to that. Instead, create a mood that would suggest that Chad should offer the change and when he doesn't, the audience will feel the child's despair. You want us to have an emotional reaction to his decision, just like the child.

And if you want to keep a sense of irony at the end, OK, go for it. But please don't repeat the same situations that he just went through all over again. It is this, more than anything, that says "everything up until now was a complete setup to get me to this point". Like I said in my previous post, try and be more subtle about it. Every situation is different, so if you are going for believability, you can't sell me on the idea that he is going to go through the same 2 situations twice within a 30 minute time span.


I hope you realize that I'm not saying these things to discourage you. Quite the opposite actually. The easy thing for me to do was just to ignore the thread all together and go about my life. But, it is obvious to me that you really take interest in making this the best you can, and it you seem to take criticism quite well. Its not easy to have your work taken apart like this, I know. Last year my writing partner I had the chance to sit down with two working screenwriters - guys that have been in the business for decades. We pitched them our feature-length film noir. They annihilated us. We really thought we had a handle on our work until that meeting. It caused us to go back to the drawing board. It was a lot of work, but the script today is far better than it was when we pitched it.

OK, got to go. Keep at it.

Eric
 
Personally, I think the last draft looks pretty good - ready to shoot in my opinion. Just think about what you want. If what you want is a nice concise short with only a few locations for ease of shooting, then I think you've hit paydirt.

The concept isn't going to be for everyone, and personally I don't have a problem with it. As far as what goes around comes around and the setup for the payoff - I think it works fine. Its concise, it has a point (regardless of whether or not a particular viewer cares for the point or not) and it comes to a tidy ending. Is it neat? Yes. Does the ending fit perfectly? Maybe. Is it too perfect? Perhaps. But I would much rather see a short like this than a rambling, disconnected short that goes on for 10 minutes past my interest.

Sure if you look at it from a filmmakers perspective you might be able to see whats coming, but will a regular audience? Maybe - but even if so, its only a 4 page script, its not like theyll be cringing for 15 minutes waiting for what they know is coming. I also didnt mind the irony - sure it makes the ending really neat and tidy, but its not like youre clubbing us over the head with a message for minutes and minutes. It sets him up, changes the tables on him and then its over - and I think people could get the message of taking others needs into consideration from just this. Just because one person didnt doesnt mean it doesnt have that message.

And not to discredit IBEJohnson, but take comments like that with a grain of salt. He might not like your concept, and certainly particular viewers wont, but basically it doesnt sound like this movie is for him. Its like reading the script for Cast Away and then saying 'I liked the premise of the guy on the island, but instead lets make it with pirates. And maybe to show more character depth, lets have his kid with him on the island. And then the kid can get kidnapped by the pirates...' I know thats an extreme example, and its not that the advice is bad or wrong, but basically its somebody looking for a completely different movie and it would require a complete rewrite from scratch. If the script youve written is the movie you want to make, then make it. You cant please everbody.

Just think about what you want to tell and what you want to accomplish with this script. If youre open to building a completely different and much longer story with a much more complex shoot, then you could try additional rewrites. Or, if youre looking to get out there and shoot a short movie with a strong but simple story, go for it and shoot what youve got now.

(also I liked the idea of a kid asking for the change at the newsstand - not a bad idea at all)
 
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I think for me, this short will be more of a short to break into the industry, than win a film festival. This is just my opinion but I think that at the very least when the projects done, it will show that I'm able to craft a concise, short film without an overabundance of dialogue or special effects. Best of all it could show any potential studios, that I'm budget consious and that while maybe this film wont leap bounds with its screenplay it has the ability to show that I can direct. I think overall this film really is just that a directing piece. On the upside, many films with so-so scripts have been made into "masterpieces" because of directing, or acting. So hopefully something like that will happen here. Thanks for all of the support, and I plan on keeping everyone informed on updates that occurs on my end.

Thanks again guys, and goodluck with any future projects.
 
He eventually gives up trying to get into the office, and sits down dejectledly on a bench somewhere. Someone who looks even worse than him, quietly sits down near him, and hands him a cigar/ bottle of beer or whatever. (no it isn't the Hamlet advert before anyone asks !). The look on his face gives away the fact that he's beginning to see life differently, and as he says thank you, he adds something like, "What am I doing ? Tomorrow, things will change !"
 
MakeshiftKnight said:
On the upside, many films with so-so scripts have been made into "masterpieces" because of directing, or acting.

This is patently false. A great script can be made into a great film with great directing, it can be made into a good film with only so-so directing, but you'll never pull a masterpiece of a bad script or even a so-so script. I think you're severely underestimating the importance of good writing.
 
mrWr0ng said:
This is patently false. A great script can be made into a great film with great directing, it can be made into a good film with only so-so directing, but you'll never pull a masterpiece of a bad script or even a so-so script. I think you're severely underestimating the importance of good writing.

Cant argue that. With that sort of attitude towards writing, thats the sort of scripts you'll end up writing. I do think a decent film can be made from a weak script if the direction is top notch, but never ever a masterpiece. Settling on a poor script and saying "dont worry, i'll direct it well" is just lazy.
 
mrWr0ng said:
This is patently false. A great script can be made into a great film with great directing, it can be made into a good film with only so-so directing, but you'll never pull a masterpiece of a bad script or even a so-so script. I think you're severely underestimating the importance of good writing.

Ok, sorry for the confusion but when I wrote "Masterpiece" I had no intention of actually meaning that you could make a bad script into a masterpiece. What I was merely saying was that many a film can be saved with good directing, hence the quotations around "masterpiece." I really just used the word "Masterpiece" because it was an exaggeration, it was mainly to show that the movie could be made far better with good direction. Sorry if you guys took the literal meaning out of that. I really do believe in good writing, especially during a time where everything made is blatantly unoriginal, but I think the point I was directly trying to make in terms of my project was that with a decent script, and a concise plot, one could potentially make a film better than what was merely on the paper. For example, "Blair Witch Project" the most widely successful indy movie of all time. I doubt anyone reading the script was by any means blown away by it. Maybe there was only one director who could have directed the movie well in the world, but the thing is when a movie isn't finished or even filmed yet a lot of people don't see what the movie truly could be. I doubt anyone ever saw that film blowing up like it did, but it had good timing and people really seemed to enjoy.

I'll end my rant, but really sorry if one of you took me for being completely literal back there.
 
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