Looking For A New Tripod Head

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digitalinnovations

Well-known member
Hello all!

I am on the hunt for a new tripod head for my Amira package. I currently use a Manfrotto Nitrotech N12 but by the time I mount up my Fujinon 20-120 and the rest I am really starting to push it. Plus, I am having a bear of a time dialing in the counterbalance. I would love to hear some ideas especially from those of you with experience with specific fluid heads. Please don't bring up the O'Connors and such...they are just out of my range.

Thanks for you help!
 
digitalinnovations said:
Please don't bring up the O'Connors and such...they are just out of my range.
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That's too bad. A 1030D would be the last head you'd ever have to buy. How many years do you have left to work? 10? 20? Amortize the cost over the rest of your career and it's chump change to get a product that will meet all your needs and more. Cameras come and go, but a good tripod will last for decades. Find a way to buy what you know you really need and you will not regret it.
 
Doug: You're killing me :) I do see your point though. I have bought quite a bit of gear over the years only to turn around and either replace it do to wearing out or if just doesn't function the way I want it to.

NorBro: The only thing about that particular head is that it's weight capacity is actually less than the Nitrotech N12.

I have been looking at the Miller ArrowX 3 but I can't find much about it online other than the manufactuer reviews.
 
I purchased a Sachtler Cine 7+7 head (it's very similar to the Video 18 head) with their 100mm Flotech legs back at the end of last year - which I highly recommend. Absolutely love the tripod - maybe the head even more than the legs. It's not as sexy and fun as purchasing a new lens or camera... but it is the last tripod I plan to purchase (am 50yrs old now).
 
I was wondering when a tripod head thread was gonna pop-up again ; )

There's an old saying: buy once, cry once.

Manfrotto's heads and legs are junk.

I bought my first tripod/head ~22 years ago. A Vinten 10LF. And I still have it today. It's not "daily use" and lives on my hi-hat, but you get the idea. Quality lasts. I've been using Vinten 100's for ~12 years and own three of them. All on either Sachtler Speedlocks or Flowtechs and they carry rigged out VariCam's, F55's and C300's.

You're gonna have to spend at least $6K+ for a new, quality head to carry the payload you have and work smoothly(the FSB8 NorBro linked is way underpowered for what you need. The 10 closer, but in Sachtler world you would want at least the 18, especially if you're gonna spend that kind of money). BUT an option is to check out eBay. There are quality heads for good prices on there all the time. I almost bought a Vinten 250 for ~$3K a few months ago. It's over an $8K+ head. Just taking a quick glance on there, there are several Vinten 100's for $2K or less(over $6K+ new). Some with legs.
 
Give www.ozentripods.com a look. Saw them at NAB NY last year. Bought an Agile10 head and their HD CF tripod. No complaints. David Cox, who was my contact is a former Vitec employee. Good guy to work with.
 
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Run&Gun said:
You're gonna have to spend at least $6K+ for a new, quality head to carry the payload you have and work smoothly(the FSB8 NorBro linked is way underpowered for what you need. The 10 closer, but in Sachtler world you would want at least the 18, especially if you're gonna spend that kind of money). BUT an option is to check out eBay. There are quality heads for good prices on there all the time. I almost bought a Vinten 250 for ~$3K a few months ago. It's over an $8K+ head. Just taking a quick glance on there, there are several Vinten 100's for $2K or less(over $6K+ new). Some with legs.
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lol, no you don't. The Sachtler specs are safely conservative, but those heads can handle much more if you (anyone) have ever used them. And an AMIRA with a viewfinder and Cabrio (w/ servo) can be well below 27 lbs, but I guess it depends on the brick(s) and other accessories that are a part of the package.

I know 'back in the day' people would throw away money like that (or only the 1% who could/can), but you don't have to today and can purchase something great for much lower than $6,000.
 
NorBro said:
lol, no you don't. The Sachtler specs are safely conservative, but those heads can handle much more if you've ever used them (anyone).

An AMIRA with a viewfinder and Cabrio (w/ servo) can be well below 27lbs, but I guess it depends on the brick and other accessories a part of the package.

I know back in the day people would throw away money like that (or only the 1% today), but you don't have to today, and purchase something much lower than $6,000.
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I've used lots of Sachtlers over my career and have a client that almost exclusively has them(that's also the reason I don't personally OWN Sachtler heads, too). A lot of people don't understand how the weight ratings work on heads. It's based on the height and center of gravity of the payload. So a head that states it can handle a 26lb payload can easily be overtaxed when you put a 20lb- 25lb camera on it, because the center of gravity is higher than that payload weight is stated for. Once you start pushing outward with longer lenses, matte boxes, batteries, etc. and going up with on-board monitors, etc., you need a head that is rated to handle much more than just the raw weight of the rig to properly counterbalance and function. My head is stated to handle over 44lb's, but I'm at the upper limits of the counterbalance capabilities of it even in the mid/upper-30lb range, depending on how the camera is rigged.

But as long as I don't have to shoot with your gear, you can buy and use whatever you like. Not trying to be adversarial to you NorBro, just speaking from 22 years experience.
 
No, I know, I hear you...and you have way more experience than I do.

I just think a good counterbalance system works pretty well over most claims from my own experience.

And I'm also considering the business side of things. Like they have to sell [more] better products. And I would hope that the internals are much better for each $1K-$2K you pay...but at some point how much better?

I legit used a FSB 4 with a 25 lb URSA for 50+ shoots (guessing based on how many days I worked with that camera), and it was perfectly fine. That's 3x-ish the amount!

I also do realize the best-of-the-best counterbalance systems shine at extreme angles in which case the FSB 4 was just not able to do with that much weight mentioned above.
 
NorBro said:
No, I know, I hear you...and you have way more experience than I do.

I just think a good counterbalance system works pretty well over most claims from my own experience.

And I'm also thinking about the business side of things. Like they have to sell [more] better products. And I hope that the internals are much better for each $1K-$2K you pay, but at some point, how much better?

I legit used a FSB 4 with a 25lb URSA for over 50 shoots (guessing based on how many days I worked with that camera), and it was perfectly fine. That's 3x the amount! I also do realize the best-of-the-best counterbalance systems shine at extreme angles, in which the FSB 4 was just not able to do with that much weight mentioned above.
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And this is where it's really gonna show. You won't notice any real degradation of performance while panning(within reason), because that doesn't have anything to do with the counterbalance system. But it will get dicey when tilting up and down and at the more extreme the angles, as you noticed. That's also why some heads can only tilt to limited angles with higher payloads. Take the O'connor 1030D and 1030DS for example. The 1030D can tilt +/-90 degrees while the 1030DS which has a higher payload capacity can only tilt +/-60 degrees.
 
I got the OConnor 1030D for my Amira at around $5400 with my corporate discount at B&H, so a chunky $1400 off of the at the time $6800 asking price (I see the price is now up to $7k). So, something to consider as you can get a corporate discount with most big distributors like B&H and Adorama. I love the head, a lot smoother than a Sachtler 20 S1. The Sachtler 20 does have the advantage of numbered dials, so for quickly changing cameras, weight setup, etc., that's easier to do with the Sachtler, and it weighs a bit less, but otherwise I much prefer the OConnor simply because the movement is more gradual and buttery.

I need to get a second OConnor now that I recently picked up a second Amira, in the meantime my measly Vinten Vision Blue head will have to bear the load. Gets by for basic stuff. I also need to pick up a Flowtech 100 or two.

As Run&Gun said, if on a budget, hit Ebay. I'd recommend a used Sachtler 18 which you may be able to get for around $1500. You can probably find an older OConnor 1030 for around $4k. Used heads can be wonky, so don't be afraid to return it if it's wobbly or has issues. In my experience any Sachtler below an 18 is not that good, even for lighter loads; I don't like the 8, 10, or 12.

While Manfrotto gets a lot of hate, if all you need is a head with enough counterbalance to hold the camera without tipping over when unlocked, the Manfrotto 509 should get the job done. If you're wanting buttery smooth moves with it, look elsewhere. But it's cheap and provides that basic function.

A lot of times people recommend expensive tripod heads to people who rarely if ever need smooth moves; for narrative work I mostly shoot handheld, Steadicam, or dolly, so upgrading my tripods was lower on my list of things to upgrade though I eventually did upgrade.
 
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I bought a 1030DS 4 years ago over the 1030D because of the higher payload capacity at 41lbs at 6".. The trade off is I can only tilt +/- 60 degrees. My F55 loaded to the nuts is around 33lbs so I have a bit of headroom. From the minute I started using the O'Connor I felt like I was using the Ferrari of heads. One point worth mentioning is I don't think it matters a whole lot what head you use if you're shooting on wider focal lengths, payload aside. But once you start using lenses that are 100mm+ a good head is critical. Not to mention you'll need legs that are in a 2:2:2 configuration to avoid windup. I don't think legs get near enough lovin'. ;)
 
This all a great info! Thank you, Eric, as well for tip about B&H's corporate discount.

Currently I think I am leaning towards the Miller ArrowX 3. It seems to be one of the best options when considering price and capacity. The used route may work but if I got stuck with something wonky that I spent more than a new ArrowX 3 costs...needless to say I'd be upset :)
 
Gizmosgadget said:
I bought a 1030DS 4 years ago over the 1030D because of the higher payload capacity at 41lbs at 6".. The trade off is I can only tilt +/- 60 degrees. My F55 loaded to the nuts is around 33lbs so I have a bit of headroom. From the minute I started using the O'Connor I felt like I was using the Ferrari of heads. One point worth mentioning is I don't think it matters a whole lot what head you use if you're shooting on wider focal lengths, payload aside. But once you start using lenses that are 100mm+ a good head is critical. Not to mention you'll need legs that are in a 2:2:2 configuration to avoid windup. I don't think legs get near enough lovin'. ;)
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Tripod systems never get enough love today, because they're not "sexy" like cameras and lenses(and even lenses get glossed over at times).

I will have to disagree(now...) on the double tube legs, though. I bought a set of the 100mm Flowtechs back in the late summer/early fall and they are way more rigid/have less(no?) backlash compared to both my regular and HD Speedlocks that use the dual-tube leg geometry/design.
 
I agree.

I have Flowtech100 and Flowtec75 legs and they are just as stiff and rigid as my O'connor 35L legs.
 
The Flowtech legs are genius, I tested the 75mm version for a month and fell in love with them. Next set of legs will be Flowtechs but I can't justify dumping my Millers just because the Flowtechs are little better.
 
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