Logos and Brands.. laws?

Azmyth

Azmyth

Veteran
Ok, so I am in post on my feature and we had one scene where there are several "signs" visible in the background for a few seconds of fairly large brands..

BP, Sunoco, and another one that I think is a local chain.. Gas N Go.

The BP logo is fairly blurred, but its one of those logos you know what it is without needing to be able to read it.. and the actor "moves" in and out of in front of it a few times.. making it difficult to replace it.

The Sunoco sign is pretty visible, and you can easily read what it says.. but it might be a bit easier to remove as it isn't being covered by anything.

The Gas N Go logo isn't going anywhere unless there's some crazy motion tracking going on to replace it as things move in front of it. I think its a local establishment so it might be just easier to get permission to show it.

They let us film there, so...

My question is, are there any laws or ways around this if your only showing these logos for a second of two? The BP one worries me the most just because of all the crap that went down with them.

I've already got a potential distribution deal lined up, and I am trying to cover all my bases. I know we should have avoided shooting the signs to begin with, but the location and the way we had to shoot just didn't allow. This is the only scene in the entire movie where there are logos shown.
 
I am not a lawyer but it is my undertanding that brands and logos are not copyrightable works. They use is governed by trademark law, not copyright, and there is no legal requirement to obtain permission of their owners when they appear in a film unless their use is such that a viewer could interpret that your film is sponsored by or endorsed by the trademark owner. If you had a character point to a sign and say "Every time I buy that gas it destroys my engine" you might have an issue. But if it just happens that the sign appears in the background, AFAIK legally no worries. What you distributor might require of you, OTOH, depends on the level of paranoia in their legal department.

As I said recently in another post here, I've suspected that the amount of trademark blurring you see these days is more based on greed than it is on legalities. Product placement fees can be a signifigant revenue stream for a production company. Producers may feel that they are giving free advertising to a trademark owner when their logo appears on the screen without the company paying a placement fee. Not interested in paying, logo gets blurred. Frankly, I find blurry blotches all over the screen to be damned annoying and uncalled for.
 
here's examples of the shots..

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From what I know you need clearance on everything. Logos are trademarked works and require clearance. Why do you think they turn products around in most films? To remove the possibility of trademark issues because they don't have clearance. The only source that can get a way with not clearing trademark use is news organizations, under fair use. Contact the brands, so them clips, and ask for clearance in writing. If you're not demeaning the brand why would they say no? Also, it's possible some logos might have a copyright, as a graphic or painting would be.

As per the copyright.gov website:

How do I copyright a name, title, slogan or logo?
Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases. In some cases, these things may be protected as trademarks. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information. However, copyright protection may be available for logo artwork that contains sufficient authorship. In some circumstances, an artistic logo may also be protected as a trademark.
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I spend a lot of time replacing logos in films. Depending on the complexity of the shot, it wouldnt cost too much to composite fake logos in.
 
Andrew McCarrick said:
From what I know you need clearance on everything. Logos are trademarked works and require clearance. Why do you think they turn products around in most films? To remove the possibility of trademark issues because they don't have clearance. The only source that can get a way with not clearing trademark use is news organizations, under fair use. Contact the brands, so them clips, and ask for clearance in writing. If you're not demeaning the brand why would they say no? Also, it's possible some logos might have a copyright, as a graphic or painting would be.

As per the copyright.gov website:
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If you are applying the trademark to a product, such as selling replica Coke cans with a snake inside that pops up when you try to open the can, certainly you have to clear the logo. But shooting a movie scene in a convenience store where bottles of Coke are visible on a shelf in the background doesn't require clearance AFAIK. They turn products around so they're not giving away screen time for free. Now if the background of the scene contains something that IS copyright, like an advertising poster containing a photograph or illustration might, for example, that's another matter.

Here's one attorney's take on the situation ... http://ezinearticles.com/?Trademarks-In-Film---Best-Practices&id=1954364 and another http://www.ehow.com/about_6459371_trademark-symbol-usage-movies.html

The real answer to the OP is to check with his attorney.
 
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I once sold a short to a french company that requested I remove all references to Coke in the connivence store! Needless to say, there were a lot of logos to remove :(
Personally, it's just better to deal with this earlier as it could slow down a sale down the road of your film.
 
bgundu said:
I once sold a short to a french company that requested I remove all references to Coke in the connivence store! Needless to say, there were a lot of logos to remove :(
Personally, it's just better to deal with this earlier as it could slow down a sale down the road of your film.
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Yep, a paranoid distributor or E&O insurance company lawyer can hold up distribution of your film until the logos are removed even though the law doesn't actually require that you do so.
 
Steve House said:
The real answer to the OP is to check with his attorney.
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+1. Yeah, Azmyth, if you want to be absolutely sure, I'd spend the money to get an evaluation by an attorney who specializes in this sort of law to let you know what would be your best bet.

Of course, he/she may even clear it and then it'll come back from a distro company that you need to remove X or blur out Y. You'll just have to role with whatever comes from that.
 
I guess I will just finish everything else and then see if I can get someone to replace these logos with generic ones.
 
I was just watching the news on TV. In one report in a city centre I saw LOTS of big bright blatant company logos. They weren't blurred out.

Do the news crews have to obtain permission for this? Your use of logos seems insignificant compared to news reports captured on a daily basis.
 
I've also seen a couple of dramas lately on TV Barry. They shot in public places too - cities with lots of famous logos up there on the screens. I also saw a documentary a few weeks back and in it someone was being interviewed right in front of his huge DVD collection -(showing spines with movie titles and one or two facing camera with actor's images in view). I wonder if they got permission for all of that?
 
PaulWM. What makes you think those programs didn't get clearance? The question isn't if there are shows that display logos.. its if its okay to have them without a clearance document to back them up. It depends on what you're doing with the project. For festivals its irrelevant. For distribution by a legitimate source it may be a requirement.
 
Hi Snazzy. When I said "I wonder if they got permission for all of that? " it was because of the sheer volume of drinks company, fast food outlet, clubs and so many other retail/commercial company logos/illuminated signs on display in the cityscapes.

A while back I knew that I would be using a certain vehicle in my first micro budget feature. I wrote to the company concerned to see I was allowed to have the car/logo in shot. They came back to me and said "I have checked with our General Counsel and he is happy for you to use the car in your production, as you have purchased the car yourself we do not need to enter into any contracts or agreements, you are free to use it in your film as and when you please."

I've tried to avoid showing logos just in case but sometimes it is unavoidable.

So, MichaelP, thanks for that link. I will now buy a copy!

 
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