Logic Audio

[taubkin]

I know this subject has been explored here so many times, but the main question remains.

I was thinking about getting a Pro Tools rig to do my sound mixes, some system over a mbox.

Then I realized that what I really need is not and interface, but just a better audio software. And I have to say I really prefer to get a M-Audio FW410 than a mBox (But none of them are really urgent). And on top of that, I would have to buy DV toolkit to work with OMF in Pro Tools. Well that is a lot of money for no reason.

Apple's Logic 7 Is 500 bucks with the academic discount, and should work with OMF and do whatever I want. Shouldn't I use it for my sound post? Are there even better alternatives?

Well any input is appreciated, FCP is terrible with audio.

 

[MattC]

Re: Logic Audio

Taubkin,

Well finally I can return the favor for all your help on the other thread, but I do have follow up questions so be sure to check back there!!

First off, let me cut to the chase regarding audio interfaces.  I strongly recommend you stay away from the M-Audio FW410 (I bought one and gave it away).  This is a pretty decent interface for the money and works reasonably well on a PC but their MAC drivers are awful and contribute to high latency, which you definitely do not want if you are going to be using it to record anything, including voiceovers.  For Mac, assuming you go with something other than a Protools rig, you really have two quality choices those made by MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) and RME.  Both offer very good latency on Macs (driver related), have excellent A/D/D/A converters for their price range and have very acceptable pre-amps.   The RME line is a bit more expensive, I would check out the RME Hammerfall (www.rme-audio.com).  MOTU also makes exceptional audio interfaces and they are a bit more reasonably priced (but not by much). I have the FW828mkII, and just love it.  If you want a portable solution, check out their Traveler model (www.motu.com).  Of course if you go with Protools, you will use their (Digidesign's) hardware.

So now, what audio program.  Surf the net, you'll never fine a more hotly debated subject and most of it's BS.  The first question is whether or not you need a midi sequencer.  If you don't know what this is then you probably don't need one.  Seriously, this is used to score films, so if you want to compose your own music then you need a program which is both a good multitrack recorder/mixer and a good sequencer.  For this there are three main contenders available on the Mac platform: Logic, Nuendo/Cubase SX and Digital Performer.  Digital Performer is the program of choice for most Hollywood composers and arrangers, although that has been changing.  Logic and Cubase SX have been battling back and forth for some time.  Both programs started out as powerful sequencers and added very sophisticated audio capabilities.  In the States Logic is much preferred (mostly for folks involved in electronic music) in Europe Cubase is king.  Hans Zimmer still scores his work in Cubase.  I keep wanting to make the switch to Logic from Nuendo because I keep hoping it will get better because it probably integrates better with FCP and works better (more efficiently) on the Mac.  Also, Steinberg (the company that makes Cubase and Nuendo, recently purchased by Yamaha) has a tendency to release buggy software in their first release, although if you search the Logic boards you will see they are not alone.  But, I prefer the audio engine in both Cubase and Nuendo (it is the same for both programs).  There are other more technical reasons, like full plug in delay compensation and layout, but much of my preference is just that, my preference.  I've been using their stuff for years and know it.  Logic has its own following and pluses (for example Steinberg does not yet support Audio Units).  So after weighing the issues I choose to stay with Cubase/Nuendo, but either program will get the job done.

I will say this though, Nuendo is made to be a direct competitor to ProTools and it does just that.  With the right hardware there is little you can do on a full ProTools rig that you can't do with Nuendo.  Dave Fisk will chime in at this point to preach the gospel of ProTools and will correct me on this point I'm sure, but having used both I prefer Nuendo which was designed specifically for A/V Post work.  But, and this is huge in my perception, I write music, so I need a powerful sequencer as well as a powerful audio app.  If all you need is a powerful audio app, well a small mbox type protools rig might be right for you.  

All of that said, Logic 7 for $500 is a fantastic deal, you get a ton of plugins and you're ready to go right out of the box.  Cubase is less money, but it doesn't include as many extras - but I buy my own plug ins which are better than what either company gives you.  

Did I just confuse you?  I fear that I rambled to much, but hopefully I gave you enough information to start to think about what it is you want and what you want to do with it.  Myself, I would get either Logic or Cubase and since you are on the Mac, and you get the student discount, you'll probably want to go with Logic, which you can use as a front end for Protools in the future.

Matt

 

[kai]

Re: Logic Audio

[quote author=MattC link=board=audio;num=1109073858;start=0#1 date=02/22/05 at 14:09:53]All of that said, Logic 7 for $500 is a fantastic deal, you get a ton of plugins and you're ready to go right out of the box.  Cubase is less money, but it doesn't include as many extras - but I buy my own plug ins which are better than what either company gives you.  
[/quote]

Matt- where did you get Logic for 500 bucks? It was 1000 when I picked it up...

 

[Caveman]

Re: Logic Audio

Hey Kai,
That's the academic discount price direct from Apple. That's how much the academic version of FC is too. It's worth taking a class at the local community college just to get the ID.

;D CAVEMAN

 

[taubkin]

Re: Logic Audio

Holy Crap Matt! ...thanks!

Good post. I see what you are talking about. I know what a midi sequencer is, I played a lot with my sister's old yamaha keyboard and cakewalk on my old Pentium 3. I'm not a professional musician although I play the guitar and a little keyboard, and I can only think of an audio interface to maybe record some crappy voice over (while I still don't have a studio). And of course, play with the music composing thing, but never take it as more than a hobby (so I'm really not real interested in I/O audio capabilities, yet). But I need a nice audio app, and I'm thinking that the deal on Logic is very good. Besides, in the future, if I wish to upgrade, the full version of Logic with all the plugins might retain a better resale value...

Thanks for your input! (I see you worked out your lighting pretty well, good stuff!)

Logic it is!

Cheers!