Location sound? HOW? Complex setup questions? Experts needed..

I think the point trying to be made is a student or newbie will get inconsistent audio. This is fine for small independent or student films but if you are shooting for a professional production, sound is not something you can just pick up and be good at quickly. It's not rocket science either but the good sound mixers work for years and are still learning how to get better audio. It's just a choice you have to make when you are starting out your production.

Cheers
 
"At least find someone locally to consult for you to put together the total package to fit your needs and budget"

That did not mention renting, it suggested getting some professional advice. Look for a soundie in your area and hire him to consult with you for a few hours.
 
"Location sound? HOW? Complex setup questions? Experts needed"

This was the title to the post.

It should have been "I want help because I don't have a clue but I won't pay a penny for the advice but I have a lot of money to buy needless gear"
 
Very funny but not very true. There is nothing wrong with having the gear. Learning how to use it is what it is all about. If people have a sore butt over that then so be it..
But rather than sharing some wisdom about sound equipment it is better to sit there and join the rant crusade of "rent rent rent"..

Now when I am at it, I guess I should hire a professional for the lights and a pro for the cinematography. Why even buy a DVX100 when I can rent better cameras. And yes I need to hire a PRO scriptwriter - no amateur like myself should attempt writing. Oh a pro producer too is needed. Yes and a good director to replace me. In fact I shouldnt touch filmmaking at all and just leave it to the professionals..

AMEN

PS. Thank you so much for not sharing helpful information of what is good equipment and how to get good sound. Luckily my books from Amazons are starting to trickle in.
 
Dude I admire your attitude to do it yourself 'cause if you're persistent then you will eventually learn what to do and what not to do... and sure, the first project will have problems with sound and each one after that will get a little better.

The reason I haven't been adding anything to this thread is 'cause I've already answered all your questions and I don't think you like the answers I've been giving. The equipment list that I've laid out in the past pages will get you a minimum expense kit of tools that are capable of getting fairly professional sound... If you get that stuff and have problems then you'll have to accept the fact that it's you and not the gear.
 
Erm I DO like your answers as they were answers to my questions. What triggers me is people "participating" on this rent rant crusade. It is tiring as I was trying to get some answers to technical questions. If you see my original post it had specific questions about specific equipment. What triggers me is that people then change my thread to a RENT RENT RENT thread and thus hinders me from discussing equipment. Especially since they dont add new useful information. I need a sound kit. I have said that a million times. End of discussion.
On the other hand your posts have been very valuable and I have a separate sheet with recommendations and have read a lot based on what you said and made my own conclusions to what I expect I need.

But to come in days after and read lame posts like XORTs is annoying and bordering the insulting.. I have not written a SHOULD I RENT thread, have I?

Many people incl. myself are interesting in knowing about what equipment to get, what are the different uses, problems and advantages, price ranges and expected qualities.

IMHO there should be a stickied thread in the LIGHTING forum and the SOUND forum so we newbies dont have to ask the same questions over and over and to read through all these senseless RENT RENT RENT threads. If I merely rented I would always be facing the situation of having to rent when I did something. That would end the impulsive bid, make my travel plans harder, and in the long run it will be costly. Here in Denmark nothing come cheap, trust me.
Could I learn from a pro sound guy? Sure I can. I even have one or two lined up that I might in the longrun convince to teach me more.
I wrote this thread with specific questions where you Matt have been helpful to provide a lot of equipment advice. This helped me.
I already moved on to a different stage of planning - at least for now.

PS. It would be so much more helpful if some of the people like you and what you have been doing would discuss sound recording and equipment and collaborate to have a sound recording thread stickied.
PPS. Matt, I have copied everything you said in to me in this thread and others to an Excel sheet to evaluate the options and choices, price ranges and all..
 
Yeah... I'm sorry for that also (the continuous "rent" advice and "hire" advice)... I think sometimes somebody makes a good point, which in this thread was that you would learn a lot about how to do sound and what to buy... if you did hire a soundguy for even one day... but then some other people cling to that good point and drill it over and over because they didn't get the acknowledgment of the point that they were looking for.

That's why I always try my best to evaluate the needs of the original poster based on certain things they say.

On a level playing field where we all have equal money and experience it would be easy to make recommendations of gear, renting, and hiring... but once the original poster has defined what approach he or she wants to take and the budget that he or she has available to take that approach then you can make the best recommendations based on that disclosure.

Early in the thread you mentioned some very professional gear and a the willingness to take a complex approach to sound. That's what first got the momentum going for suggestions such as the 744t and professional sound guys... when what I assumed, base on some other points about "being green" and not realizing what a great mic the 416 is... that you might be better off and happier (based on your desires to master location sound on your own)... with some more modest advice regarding mid-level options that you could afford and use to gain the knowledge... which would make you a better sound guy yourself... and give you the background to make educated choices about expensive gear later.

So it's all good... I don't think anybody meant any hostility towards you... they just got mentally tied to the idea that you intended to ACTUALLY DO "full Hollywood sound"... when what you really wanted was help choosing some decent tools so that you could LEARN to do so.:thumbsup:
 
Agree.
I never planned to seriously buy the 744t though.. just weighed the options - real nice to know it exist though and what to aspire for, but in my mind I have already settled for the Marantz 660 or better 670.. Some of us do know how to sift through the information ;)
 
Before you buy that Marantz you might want to wait until I get the M-Audio MicroTrack that I'm waiting for... I've already got another thread going on it, but the gist is that if it lives up to it's hype and specs on paper that it will become the new field recorder to have... even though it doesn't have some of the pro features of the Marantz it's got a serious advantage on clean signal... which is what matters the most anyway.

Do I wish it had XLR in rather then 1/4" in? Yeah... Do I wish it had 2 second PRE-RECORD like the Marantz does? Yeah... Do I wish it looked like a professional field recorder rather then the ugly sister to the Ipod? Yeah...

But will I accept all those differences for the jump from -65db SN (mic in on the Marantz) to -100db SN (mic/line in on the MicroTrack)? Um... yeah... and when you go to read that other thread you'll see that you can get on the list to buy one from guygraphics for only $349.

$349 for a digital field recorder that allows you to drag and drop files and provides phantom power for professional mics from a unit that collects that signal at a not-too-shabby -100db SN? Yes please.
 
sounds interesting.. remember you mentioned it before but I dismissed it due to not using XLR connections. How is it - do I just get a converter and what do I lose by doing that?

By the way, I am reading PRODUCING GREAT SOUND FOR DIGITAL VIDEO by Jay Rose right now - do you know that book? Good / bad?
 
You lose nothing... get an 18" (or whatever length you want) XLR to 1/4" TRS cable and you plug the 1/4" end into the MicroTrack and the other end can go to your mic or mixer or whatever. (and obviously you need ONE cable PER channel... if you're recording stereo with two mics then you need two cables)

As soon as you plug in that cable it's just the same as if the MicroTrack had XLR in right on the unit.

Good StarQuad XLR to 1/4" TRS cables are only about $25 each from anywhere... (Trew for sure)... and if you aren't planning on using a mixer or other extra gear in between a mic and the MicroTrack then you can get a cable 20' long if you want... it'll still feed the 48v phantom just the same.

I ordered 20' cables and 18" cables for mine.

And really the 20' cables were kind of a waste 'cause you can just plug any standard XLR cable into the end of that XLR to TRS cable and it will operate the same... I was being stupid and thought I'd save an extra connection for the times I only bring MicroTrack and Mic.
 
I don't think anyone is trying to force suggestions. It's just that it would take a page of info about your background, project plans, and future aspirations to fully understand what would be best for your situation. Some posters come on here thinking that they can be a one man crew and get "Hollywood sound". Others think audio is something that any monkey can pick up and master in a week. Some realize the complexities of getting involved in location sound recording and are looking to learn.

What drives most of the advice to either rent or hire a professional is that a large portion of the posters are expecting that sound is just some easy lesser sibiling to picture and a cheap three figure investment will have their projects ready for broadcast. This assumption on costs is reinforced by the idea that video has gotten ridiculously cheap in the last 10 years. Unfortunately sound has not follow the same price drops.

These same posters come in months later wondering why they can't clean up the junk they now have on their audio. In the end their project becomes a failed experiment demonstrating why professional video and film productions all have a picture AND sound crew.

The advice is never an attack on you personally but an honest attempt to get you the best results possible for your particular situation. If the advice doesn't suit a person's situation then politely explain why it doesn't (as you did) and hopefully more will pop in. This really is a friendly forum with pleny of people ready to help.

PS-Jay's book will get you up to speed as quickly as possible. Best audio purchasing decision you will make. :grin:
 
oleg said:
wabbit - i am doing hollyland sound , is it worth something :-( ?
Click to expand...
LOL, knowing where you work and reside, this is very punny. Likely to fly over other's heads :)
 
dracaan
I never said rent. I do think you should buy, especially after your travel plan description.
What I was saying is to hire somebody knowlegable to consult with you and help you put together a good affordable package and show you how to use it.
I've seen countless posts like yours where people are willing to pay for equipment but troll here for free advice. Do you have no value for experienced people to help you? Take a look at tuition rates at any school. Good training is not cheap for a reason. But you'll spend plenty of money on gear but not a penny on quality help from a professional.
Hire a sound professional for a day to help you pick out the gear that fits your needs and budget. They will also help you understand the basic techniques of how to use that gear. Or enjoy your post audio nightmare.
 
What's wrong with getting professional free advice here?

What's wrong with posting for info in the AUDIO part of this forum?

The technical info I got in this thread and others have given me a good overview of what equipment is out there. When I came to this forum I didnt know anything about boompoles, shotgun mikes, sound recorders, mixers or anything. Now I have a smaller overview of they exist incl prices, qualites, pitfalls etc..

I don't need any tuition rates as I don't believe in film school !

What I don't appreciate is that a thread asking specific questions is being hijacked because want to prove some certain point. Anyways doesnt matter. I have the answers for the moment that I need.

And no .. most likely I will not hire a guy to tell me what to buy. There are plenty of places on the Internet incl. here and furthermore there is also the books I read that give me an idea of what I want....
Why I should hire someone to tell me what lavalliere, what boompole, what sound recorder, what mixer when I can get all the info here and otherwhere for free? Anyways that is rhetorical and not really a question.
 
Thanks for your participation in this thread. For your many valuable insights. And for answering my original questions rather than using it for your own point of view...
 
xort said:
Free advice is worth what you paid for it. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Dude... honestly it's not like me to say anything negative... but c'mon... the ENTIRE forum is FREE and there's plenty of good advice throughout.

The guy finally defined what he wanted out of this thread, acknowledged everybody's points, and is trying to gracefully wrap it up.

I really don't get why anyone would still insist on making the sound guy an issue... there's a thousand other threads giving direct advice to sound questions with no mention of a sound guy... and I don't want Draccan to get a bad taste about this great forum 'cause of a couple bumps on his way in.

Clearly the guy is developing a passion for sound and wants to learn it for himself... I don't care how hard it is for somebody to learn location sound, and if that person doesn't care either, why should you? You take the high road and he'll take the low road... but you'll both get there eventually. I say as long as somebody is on one of the paths to better audio and they say, "I don't want to go that way"... even if you think there is a better way... just accept that answer and support the guy.

If he comes in later with a BARRAGE of questions... as if to say that everything was wrong with his audio... THEN I'LL be the first one to say he needs to hire somebody who knows what's going on! But if he comes back with one or two minor questions then I'll give him more advice.

"I got ALL this stuff you said to get and my sound is NO GOOD!"

Then I rail on the guy.

"I got ALL this stuff you said to get and there's this one problem I need help with."

Then I help the guy...

Let's see what Draccan can do with the free advice he's getting.
 
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