Location release

E

End of Fall

Carbonite Member
I went scouting for locations this weekend, I came across a really nice house that I would like to use for a music video that I'll be shooting shortly.

Here's some of the issues I ran into, the house is from 1904 and the owner has died, left the house with two grand children. Which the two children move a lot.

I went to find info out on the home, I came up with that they haven't paid for taxes since 2007, and the phone number listed isn't in service.

I was going to mail them a location release form, I figured I would go to the house and actually try to see if the door was open. I doubt they have a alarm system since it doesn't look like anyone has lived at the house for years, maybe decades...

I walked on the porch to my surprise there were spiders the size of my head all over the place. Freaked me out, but I had a can of bug spray that I was killing them with.

I noticed a letter on the door with a few numbers in case of a emergency's.

I called the first number, the guy gave me a number to someone who may help me out. After I hung up I called the second number, I explained why I needed the location and after talking for about five or so minutes she tells me that I can not use the location because I don't have permission. She was the executive of the will and she told me that the grand children move a lot so she doubts they'll give me permission.

She advised me not to use the location because they pay yearly for the police department to patrol the house....

Now I would love to use the interior of the house but if I can not I'll use the porch and be gone.

I figured I would have the generator and the lights set up, then bring the band and have them quickly set up. Run our shots through the motion and if any police show up, we'll explain that we're not breaking anything but in fact shooting a music video.

Show them that I tried to contact the owner but I ran out of luck. I'll apologize, then call it for the day and use what I have for that location.

What do you guys think I should do?

Pictures of location:

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100_1306-1.jpg
 
Don't. A location permit not only grants you access to the location for the filming, but also for the right to exhibit the location in your production,. SO even if you manage to 'steal' the shots, if the owners find out, they will stop the exhibition of the music video (and sue for trespassing, since your video is now the proof).
 
1) It is a good-looking location.

2) You probably shouldn't use it. I'm disinclined to believe that anybody pays the local PD extra money to patrol within their own jurisdiction, but now that the executor knows you're interested she may ask the police to pay the place extra attention just in case you decide to guerilla it. Since the executor has the authority to tell you no, the fact that you haven't successfully contacted the owners won't mean much, if the police show up knowing anything about what's going on.

Could you shoot establishing shots from the road, and shoot your tighter shots on the porch of another house?
 
Yeah wow I would not take that risk. It's not that great of a house, well actually it's a total piece of crap, but I gather that's what you're going for lol.
 
Since I'm around these boards tonight- let me hijack!


What if you shoot in your own house, but don't own it? This is a weird question, but I live in a rented house and wanted to shoot a short film entirely in my room. Does the landlord have any kind of weird, legal loophole about public exhibitation (or the official lease holder for the matter- who isn't me, I just live here)?
 
The landlord has the right, not you. I once was shooting a Wells Fargo Bank commercial and the bank granted me permission to shoot in the branch. The shoot was stopped half way through when the owner of the building in downtown L.A. said "it's my building, the bank simply leases the space." It was VERY costly for Wells Fargo! On the other hand, per my entry above, the property release serves 2 functions: one is granting access (which you already have), the other is allowing the image of the property to be used in your film. That is MUCH easier in your case. An apartment (or rental house) building is pretty generic and if you can manage to grab the shots without your landlord finding out (i.e. no big lights or trucks outside), then you stand a better chance of being able to incorporate the footage into your production because it (the location) will be very generic.
 
Well, it will only be the inside of the house. No big lights or trucks- it's a house in the country, not an apartment- and he very very rarely visits or cares whats going on in it.

And in fact...if I ever entered it into film festivals, he would still never find out. But I wouldn't want to get into some weird loophole where he could sue me if he ever found out (again, not that type of guy, but you never know).

Should I make a big deal about it, or just worry about it if it ever came to pass? I don't plan on this hitting multiplexes or anything (even then, I doubt he'd notice), but I guess you never know.

P.S.- If my father pays the rent/lease here (which he signed), doesn't that give us some sort of rights as residents to use this place in public exhibits like film festivals? Don't we own the image as long as we pay the landlord, if it ISN'T a commercial building?
 
Consider the following…

1) It's extremely unlikely you'll get caught, or that anyone with ownership on the house is going to find out.

2) Even if the owner does find out, are they going to care? They obviously don't seem to care much about the property.

3) Through all these unlikely events that could lead to them finding out, what's the worst that could happen? You certainly won't face any prison time. You're unlikely to be fined anything considerable. And I doubt they're going to spend money on a lawyer suing for an amateur non-profit film. Heck, technically they could sue you for those pictures you posted here!


If I was in your position, I'd go for it. It's a beautiful looking house, and the risks are low. Doing interior is a bit more risky, but try the exterior scenes first and see how it goes. That's me anyway, but I do crazy things for good footage!
 
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Anyone else think that this place looks very much like the Myers House from Halloween (the original)?

great location!


: )


dmc
 
EssentialParadox said:
Consider the following…

1) It's extremely unlikely you'll get caught, or that anyone with ownership on the house is going to find out.

2) Even if the owner does find out, are they going to care? They obviously don't seem to care much about the property.

3) Through all these unlikely events that could lead to them finding out, what's the worst that could happen? You certainly won't face any prison time. You're unlikely to be fined anything considerable. And I doubt they're going to spend money on a lawyer suing for an amateur non-profit film. Heck, technically they could sue you for those pictures you posted here!


If I was in your position, I'd go for it. It's a beautiful looking house, and the risks are low. Doing interior is a bit more risky, but try the exterior scenes first and see how it goes. That's me anyway, but I do crazy things for good footage!
Click to expand...


I'm a man of risks, sometimes to get the shots you have to bend or break the law.

I'm thinking that this risk I'm going to take, considering the fact I was shooting the location for test shots on the Letus and I had a police officer pass by and just nod his head. I was about 15 feet in from that fence.

I'm not sure why they would care, in a sense its like girl scout's sitting on the porch. Practically the same idea we're about to be doing. I understand my logic is a little far fetched but honestly we could be doing much worse then trying to make a music video.

Besides for all we know if a police officer shows up, we play it cool-- he may even want to sit and watch. We'll supply him with donuts after the shoot if he wishes to tag along. :2vrolijk_08:

But aside from that I feel I could use any vintage house for the interior shot or not.


By the way, could I use walmart flood lights for lights to shoot light onto the band? I was thinking four flood lights would be plenty of light. The tree's are giving a shadow over the porch. I want them to be nicely lit considering I'll be using a Letus.
I don't want to under expose them.
 
Only thing I'm wondering about is the neighbors. If there are no neighbors anywhere around, I'd be inclined to say to go for it.

The only reason I say that is because you're going to be blasting loud music and not only that, but it sounds like you'll be doing it at night and with a generator. The only time I've been shut down over 5 years of shooting stuff without permits is when I ran a genny in a residential neighborhood at midnight. Not the best idea.

I would keep trying to get in touch with them though. Don't give up now! It looks like a killer location.
 
I get so stressed filming without a permit, maybe I'm just too much of a goodie goodie, I mean it's good to guerilla stuff sometimes, even I agree with that, but it always stresses me out. I guess there is a bit of a thrill in it too, haha.
 
Because it's under tree shade, ideally you would want to string up a large white sheet above the subjects that's angled slightly so the light is directed slightly behind your subjects. Point one big light to bounce off the sheet, which will give a diffused general light for the area, plus a bit of a backlight. And then use some smaller lights to light the fronts of the subjects.
 
We filmed today and we failed very badly!

We got on location by 10:45, roll call was 9:50. Lights were set up by 11:20 the generator took a **** on us so we put the lights and generator back into the trucks.

We ran one WS, two MS'S and one CU I was in the middle of shooting the second close up when a White SUV pulled up. I heard one of the band members talking to the woman so I called cut and walked down to see what the fuss was about.

I crouched down a bit so I could be on eye level with the woman. The first thing the woman asks me is " What are you doing " I responded back nice and polite, I'm working on a video shoot. I explained how I made all effort to try to contact the owners but I failed to do so since there phone numbers have been changed.

She asks me which a lot of anger in her voice " do you have permission " I beat around the question again by trying to sweet talk her. She asks again " Answer my question!, do you have permission " I knew I didn't and I figured I shouldn't lie, I told her no I'm sorry, I don't.
She replied back to me with " Then you are trust passing " once again I tried to lighten the mood up by trying to be polite with her, she then said I have to leave " now!! " so I looked into her dark glasses and quickly said OK!

I quickly got the bands gear on the road, everything off the property because I knew the police were on the way. I had two band members go in the rear end of the house and go through a window and snatch the numbers off the inside of the window in case they called any of them.

In matter of mintues I seen the police officer pull up, he's got a white note pad in his hands. He's rougly 35 years of age, I'm only about 21 with the oldest guy being about 26 on set. I heard him ask who's the boss here. I walk up to him and shook his hand, greeted him.

Right after I told him who I was, what I was doing he nodded his head. The white SUV with the old woman pulls up, rolls her window down and just says..." I spoke to that young man and I think its rude...rude rude rude "

Honestly he looks at her and says thanks, and just told her in not so many words to F off.

He looked at the band members and said I don't like having to get out of my of my car that has AC. I'm not sure if he was being sarcasisted or not but I thought it was rather funny.

I explained that we were working on a video shoot, told him I tried to contact the owners. He also said this house has been abanded for years. That being said I'm blocking the road with the band gear and it has to be moved. I explained we were on the porch shooting and he said the reason he don't want us here is the fact if someone later that day breaks the window or lights the place on fire... We're the last ones seen at the location and will be held responsble for the house.

He said come back with a signature permitting us to use the location and he'll let us.


Question:

Should I fake a location release or should I scatch the idea of the location.

The band paid us 3500 to shoot the music video, they like the location and to my knowlage they're not going to use the video on MTV so I doubt the real owners would ever see.
I feel I've been paid I need to give them the goods, they bought a video and they want this location I should give it to them.
 
Wow haha that's pretty awkward... I would be so nervous in that situation.

I think that's why you gotta get permission, though, if you can't, find another location honestly. It's too much of a risk, you don't want to get busted for something like that twice. You took a shot, it didn't work out. We've all done it before.

I filmed on Bureau of Land Management property, in a desert, with old car bodies (already there) lit on fire, with gasoline, and no insurance, nothing besides just our extinguishers. We knew it wasn't dangerous because those cars have been burned numerous times before, they were just old rusted bodies, and it was an area where a lot of kids party, but we also knew it was illegal, and we should have proper insurance. At the same time we got a $15,000 video for $3,000 because there's simply no way we had the money to pay to do that all by the book.

That being said, been there, done that, would never do it again. I'm "legit" now and do everything by the book, because I just can't afford to take those risks anymore.
 
Ooh, a couple of problems you encountered there!

I hate the odd nosy person who only wants to get involved because they have something against better-looking people.

I personally would've blagged the situation a bit… not 'lie' technically but, when the woman in the white car asked if you had permission I would've replied with something along the lines of, "Oh, thanks for your concern. It's good to see neighbors taking an interest. But I've been in touch with the person who controls the estate of the previous owner" (truth) "and I've spoken with them about shooting a video here" (truth) "They were a little concerned about was any damage being done…" (truth-ish) "…but I've agreed that I'd call them back and pay for any damages if any occur, but it doesn't appear we'll have any issues." (truth! …Well now it is!)

I know that's being hugely sneaky, and a lot of people are going to disagree with that approach, but you're not lying… you're saying the truth, and then quickly changing the subject in a way that implies you were given permission.

It's a bit late to try that approach on that cop now though. Unless, I suppose, if you wanted to try something along the lines of, "I spoke to the attorney… blah blah… and the attorney told me they can't technically sign anything on behalf of the previous owner or on the 'possible existence' of the next of kin." – You may be able to get the cop to consider that sufficient permission. On top of that, maybe you can sweet-talk the officer into sticking around to supervise your shoot in exchange for some donuts.


Misleading a police officer could make things a little too risky though, so it's up to you.

In the end you might want to just try again to get in touch with the owners. The attorney of the estate must have contact information for them, even if it's only a friend or relative. If the police officer is willing to supervise the shoot (or if it's a long shoot, maybe just check in every couple of hours) then maybe the attorney would be happier with that. Although I really don't think the attorney is going to be able to do anything whatsoever on their behalf.

The officer seemed quite friendly, maybe another option is to get the names from the attorney and then ask the officer if he can track down contact information for them if the attorney doesn't have any.

Anyway, I think those are your options. Good luck!
 
You're nuts if you try it again without a permit. The cop cut you a break. If you screw him, you will get arrested. - and quite posibly get your (and the band's) equipment impounded.
 
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