Location Audio Kit Info

craigbowman

craigbowman

Veteran
As I have spent the last number of months ordering the visual side of the production gear, now I am finally down to the audio. I left the audio to last because its my weakest area and I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

I wish to put together a good location audio kit. Shotgun mic, blimp, windscreen, boom pole, 3 lavs, field mixer, solid state recorder, headphones, XLR cables. Where using hardwired lavs would be impracticle I would like them to be configurable with 3 decent wireless transmitter and receiver units.

Here is your chance to voice what you would choose and would expect total kit to cost for hardwired version and with wireless stuff.
 
No budget limits? You want to know what is the best in a reasonable range? What style of shooting do you plan on doing (broadcast, EGN, EFP, industiral, doc, etc)?

I can recommend off a $10,000 ENG package no problem (without even touching wireless). :)
 
Wabbit!! Of course the sky is the limit for an industry pro sound mixer! lol.

Here are some tools in price range-ish terms, presuming there is always something more costly.
The "high end" prices should be considered the "practical limit" for what "most" guys use.

Mixer
$600 - $2500ish

Lavalierre Mic
$100 - $325ish

Shotgun Mic
$400 - $1500ish

Boom Pole
$100 - $900ish

"solid state recorder" but, I'll also include HDD recorders as well
$700 - $4000ish-ish

Wireless
$500 - $2500ish (or $3400ish-ish, but don't worry about those)

Could you be a little more specific about your needs? There's probably a lot more to learn about sound than what gear to purchase.. There's a lot I need to learn about sound. There's a lot more gear I'd like to own. Would be happy to help, just let us know a little more specifically your needs such as do you really need wireless everyday or would a lesser system do the job if its' use is infrequent. Can you record to the camera "most of the time" or do you always want to create more work by doing "dual system" sound with a separate recorder? Do you only need dual system sound for steadicam work? Could you get away with renting occasionally? Do you necessarily have to have a carbon fiber boom pole with a cable inside? Or would a tree branch work okay in lieu of? Okay, kidding on that last one. Help us help you.
 
craigbowman said:
Here is your chance to voice what you would choose and would expect total kit to cost for hardwired version and with wireless stuff.
Click to expand...

I was just looking for feedback and opinions on what you would choose for yourself and expect to pay for a given item type and/or the whole kit configuration I listed as opposed to what I end up with or wind up paying.

ie. If you were getting a boom mic for yourself, what would you get and what would you expect to pay?

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be confusing.
 
Craig, the only one confused is YOU. EVeryones audio needs are different, and there are no simple answers. If you want any value out of this thread, tell people

1. What kind of shooting you will be doing (street documentaries different from film different from desk interviews)
2. What your total budget is right now for audio stuff.

Audio is all about solving a problem, and most problems can be solved to varying degrees for various budgets. Audio is always a compromise and usually a series of steps. No "magic kit".
 
I currently have a budget of $7K for location audio gear. I'm doing an educational series direct to DVD.

Yes there will be some interviews but not all of them necessarily will be shot in the person's office or in a studio. Some might be walk and talk. A lot of material will be shot in a space which I could very loosely call our "soundstage" but it needed a lot of baffling set up to get rid of the empty space echo.
 
Well, you have some decisions to make, but here's roughly $8300 worth of durable high quality audio gear that can handle a lot of different recording situations.

Sound Device 722 2-channel HD field recorder + case $2600
Sound Devices 302 Portable 3 Channel Field Mixer + case $1400
Sennheiser MKH416 shotgun microphone $1100
Lightwave EQ-106 Equalizer Windscreen for MKH-416 $120
Lightwave MMBSC Mini Mount Isolating Microphone Shockmount $165
K-Tek KE110CC - Aluminum Boompole with Coiled Cable $220
Audio-Technica AT899 or Countryman B3 - Omni-Directional Lav Mics $200x3 $600
Sennheiser Evolution G2 100 Series wireless kit $600x3 $1800
Sony MDR-7506 Headphones $100
Assorted cables $200
 
As I am looking to buy almost everything you are I thought I'd weigh in with my shopping list SO FAR. As I have $1,000 +/- to throw at it (and only wish I could get it all for less than $100!!!) I'm using my time to make up for a lack of $$. Ebay, online classified sites and retailers' used equipment for sale might save me a bundle.

Field Recorder - Edirol R-1 $497.00
Field Mixer - Behringer Eurorack UB1202 has 12 inputs, 2 bus mic/line & 4 mic preamps $99.00
Shotgun Mic - Azden SGM-1X; 80-18,000Hz freq. response $179.00
Windscreen - Mike Muff Low Cost Fur Mic Windscreen $39.99
Boom Pole - High View Video Fishpole; 4 - 10ft; boom camera shots & audio fishpole $89.99
Wireless w/ 2 Lavs & 2 handhelds - Hisonics HS596B VHF (gulp) $129.95
Headphones - Labtech LT-825 20 - 20,000Hz response $19.99

Total is $1,054.92 and I'm re-thinking the wireless system (want to go UHF) and the field recorder (I haven't looked at used hi-quality cassette decks).

And I would hope I could hard wire the hand held wireless mics if I wanted to. So the $200 that Barry allotted for cable is a cost I would incur along with another $200 for a BeachTek adaptor because I'm on a DVC7 and need to go XLR.

So, that puts me at about $1,500 and I haven't done the light thing yet. Sigh. I think I may go the halogen work lights and pvc pipe route! lolol
 
Wow, that's quite a list. Do you need all of that stuff? I'd probably just get a shotgun, windscreen, pole, and headphones... well, of course the Beachtek as well. The wireless will be (mostly) useless under $500/system and the mixer is pretty low quality and those big faders make it difficult to adjust levels quickly to avoid peaking, plus it requires AC power. The headphones are where I would put some spend, probably around $100.

Here's my $1000-list:

AKG C300B/CK93 Indoor Boom Mic $385
Audio Technica 4073a Outdoor Shotgun Mic $530
Sony Headphones $100

Then, go thrifty on your windscreen and boom pole. Get good cables if you can(Canare Starquad)
Pro equipment is always a better investment than consumer equipment. The consumer gear breaks down and isn't rugged enough for film production. Would you be willing to take my word on that last one? I managed a department of a music instrument retailer and we saw a lot of problems with Behringer equipment. Roland is okay, still expensive. Azden wireless systems quit working after two years for no apparent reason. Labtech is sold at Walmart. Pro gear will outlast that stuff and while you may not get wireless or lavs or a HDD recorder, those things are really splurge and totally unnecessary to get good sound. Hope this helps.
 
thisiswells said:
Wow, that's quite a list. Do you need all of that stuff? I'd probably just get a shotgun, windscreen, pole, and headphones... well, of course the Beachtek as well. The wireless will be (mostly) useless under $500/system and the mixer is pretty low quality and those big faders make it difficult to adjust levels quickly to avoid peaking, plus it requires AC power. The headphones are where I would put some spend, probably around $100.

Here's my $1000-list:

AKG C300B/CK93 Indoor Boom Mic $385
Audio Technica 4073a Outdoor Shotgun Mic $530
Sony Headphones $100

Then, go thrifty on your windscreen and boom pole. Get good cables if you can(Canare Starquad)
Pro equipment is always a better investment than consumer equipment. The consumer gear breaks down and isn't rugged enough for film production. Would you be willing to take my word on that last one? I managed a department of a music instrument retailer and we saw a lot of problems with Behringer equipment. Roland is okay, still expensive. Azden wireless systems quit working after two years for no apparent reason. Labtech is sold at Walmart. Pro gear will outlast that stuff and while you may not get wireless or lavs or a HDD recorder, those things are really splurge and totally unnecessary to get good sound. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

thisiswells,

I read your post and I must admit it made me stop and think, "why would a man with his credentials and experience, who by virtue of his membership at DVXuser.com has an intense interest in quality video, advise me to replace my laundry list of equipment and get 2 mics and a set of headphones instead?"

After a couple of days of reading and thinking I came up with the answer. "He knows that without good mics and headset anything and everything I shoot will have mediocre or crappy sound and the equipment will be be unreliable as time passes."

After I embraced this new paradigm I felt as though I had saved myself a whole two years of angst and vaulted beyond the old me who would have bought the lower quality
equipment and regretted it. Maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of my life...or something like that.

And I now believe the things I should try to aquire first are those things which will contribute to the best image and sound...the things that will show up on screen and come out of the speakers. Everything else can be sacrificed in the short term.

So, now that I have re-thunk my buying philosophy and asked myself, "what do I REALLY need, right now?" And THAT made me re-think the kind of shooting I want to do.

As much as I'd like to do indie filming I don't think I'm ready for that yet. I might eventually do weddings, but even that is a step or two away from my abilities.

I think the way to go is to do personal memories (and maybe an occasional other event as they are offered me). It suits my interest and I can control more of the production variables using less of a $$ investment.


Aside from a lighting kit (to be discussed in the lighting lounge? lol) and my camera, what tripod and sound equipment would you recommend?

Even though it might not be used in an interview situation, would the AKG C300B/CK93 be something I'd still want in my kit even though I don't know if/when I would film an indoor event?

Would the Sony headphones be used while I'm conducting the interviews or should I use something less off-putting?

Is it really necessary to continually monitor my sound in that controlled setting after I've set my levels?

I can imagine some elderly subjects thinking I can't hear them well if I've got these big ol headphones on my ears even though I have told them I'm actually listening to THEM.

Thanks thisiswells!

By the way, anyone else who would like to weigh in on this matter, I welcome your responses, too.
 
would the AKG C300B/CK93 be something I'd still want in my kit even though I don't know if/when I would film an indoor event
Click to expand...

Quite clever from you to have noticed that mic. It's an excellent choice, probably the best at that price range and probably a bit above it too. I compare it (and I actually did when I bought my first set) with the Sennheiser MKH416, which is considered the industry standard.

The CK93 capsule is slightly less directional than the 416, so depending on your application you should listen to the CK98 too.

Get yourself a good blimp type windscreen for outdoors shooting. I prefer Rycote, but there other options. Also buy a small elastic suspension if you get the CK93 capsule.

Which camera are you going to use it with? DVX100?


Carlos
 
Thanks, Carlos.

I don't think I'd be shooting much outside unless I could do it with the "indoor" equipment I have decided to focus on getting.

By the way, I must give "thisiswells" credit for alerting me to the AKG C300B/CK93.

The camera? An AG-DVC7. :thumbsup:
 
craigbowman said:
As I have spent the last number of months ordering the visual side of the production gear, now I am finally down to the audio. I left the audio to last because its my weakest area and I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

I wish to put together a good location audio kit. Shotgun mic, blimp, windscreen, boom pole, 3 lavs, field mixer, solid state recorder, headphones, XLR cables. Where using hardwired lavs would be impracticle I would like them to be configurable with 3 decent wireless transmitter and receiver units.

Here is your chance to voice what you would choose and would expect total kit to cost for hardwired version and with wireless stuff.
Click to expand...



If you search the forums on this stuff, you'll find the answers to the questions you need.
 
I thought I would chime in here, just for fun. I agree that until you really have a direction, go with a minimal kit to start, then grow it as your needs and experience grows. I started with the Behringer mixer (which btw, does have a battery-driven capability) and it has worked okay for me. (I did have a sales person tell me that if your Behringer works for the first thirty days, it will probably work for a while...they seem to have a lot of units that are effectively DOA.) I also started with the AT897 (which may be a lower cost way for you to start out). But, I also highly recommend you watch ebay for the equipment you may want, as you can often get better equipment for good prices. For example, I've seen the Sony headphones for as low as $80 plus shipping (new, not used). And yes, with ebay you take many different types of risks, but I have done pretty well.

So, now I have the Behringer mixer (any one want to buy it cheap?), a Mackie and Shure mixer, Rode cartioid match pair, all quad cables and three different wireless kits (I'm still experimenting), a B3 lav, two k-tek booms, and many more goodies. I'm still looking to upgrade my shotgun (considering Rode, AT4073a, and others).

So, the moral of this story is this: Read through all of this forum, you will find lots of great info (I wish I had before making my initial purchases). But, don't make a huge investment until you really understand exactly what you will be doing and what you really need. Then expand your kit to match these needs. Work on other people's projects when they have different equipment so you can try it out on their dime (or rent for your own project before you buy).

HTH,

Phil
 
Thanks Phil!

In spite of my initial determination to take thisiswells suggestion the costs really do weigh heavy on my mind.

By the way, here is what should be a welcome link.

A shotgun shootout with audio samples of various mics. I was wondering why no one else at DVXuser.com had gathered all the mics and assembled such a comparison (thisiswells did a great job posting the me66 vs at4073a!).

http://www.dvfreelancer.com/articles/shotgun_shootout.html

This is so good I will start a new thread to make the casual surfer aware of it.
 
Well thanks everyone for the advice. I've had time to do a bit of research.

I have decided on a few items already and am going with the Sanken CS-3e shotgun mic, K-Tek 202 Boom Pole, K-Tek Zeppelin - Shock Mount/Windscreen - Pole Mount, Sanken COS11sBP Lavaliers.

I'm holding off on wireless for now.
 
What are you going to be recording the audio on? If you are recording directly to a camcorder you will want a mixer so your audio man can monitor the levels and avoid peaks. If you are going to be recording to a DAT, hard drive or solid state recorder you could probably skip the mixer. All of the 16mm projects that I worked on we plugged the mic directly into an HHB PortaDAT, it had gain control and audio levels built into the recorder.
 
Behringer

Behringer

Wow! I have been using Behringer stuff for years and I have yet to have a problem. I have a UB2442FX that has been used to record CD's, and the noise quality and the preamps are excellent. I also use a Tube UltraFex and Tube Composer, as well as a 2100 Composer quite a bit, also with no problems.
What wer the types of equipment you were getting back broken?
 
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