Limiting myself to commercials a bad idea?

J

jghenderson

Well-known member
Hello everyone.

So me and two people I know are starting a production company. One of the people is a director, the other is going to be our producer. So essentially we will be splitting the directing for our projects between me and the other director.

However I have already sensed a problem in our future. Our company is going to focus on narrative, commercials, and music videos. The other director has a feature length script we are soon going to start raising money for, and I have a short film we are going to make. Those two things are fine as they are our own projects that we are bringing into the company. The problem I am seeing is between the music videos and the commercials.

Essentially I think we are going to have a lot of conflict in deciding who exactly gets to direct what. For instance one of our first projects is a music video for a local band. I am the one that initiated this project, and therefore think I should be the one to direct it, but I am sensing he wants to direct it as well.

So because of this, I was thinking that in order to prevent conflict in the future, perhaps we should just split the responsibilities up so that he is in charge of all music videos, and I am in charge of all commercials. He is definitely much more interested in music videos than commercials and I am more interested in commercials than music videos. So I would initially think this would be an excellent solution, it will keep everything simple and no issues will arise.

The concern I am having is in limiting myself. I am starting this production company obviously to help create a career for myself. My ultimate goal is to be a narrative feature length director (like most people want) but how you get there is obviously a tricky thing, plus making money is of a bigger issue to me right now than directing a feature (since I am engaged and need to support a family).

I guess the question is, would it be dangerous to limit myself to just commercials and the occasional narrative short? Would I be severely hindering my future career by never directing music videos?

Also, how is the commercial and music video markets? Is there one that is stronger? pays better? easier to get into?


Any wisdom will be greatly appreciated.
 
What did the research you compiled, analyzed and discussed with your business advisor during the months you were constructing your business plan finally indicate? That data, regardless of whether you wish to believe it or not is usually correct nine times out of ten.
 
We have not yet hammered out a business plan as we are in the very early stages of this company. However we are going to start shooting some things within the next month and I feel it's important for us to have our different jobs laid out from the very beginning.

So, regardless of any compiled data, does anyone have an opinion on my questions?
 
I'd suggest you stick with directing the commercial part of your production company if you have to decide between the two. If you haven't already, you should look into entering video contests (onlinevideocontests.com, vidopp.com, poptent.net, zooppa.com). A lot of big company's pay some good money (for us po' folks, not for them), for user generated brand videos.

Another option is (if you guys share a vision and can get along), there's no reason you guys can't share director credits for everything you do, shorts, music videos and commercials. Look at the Coen Brothers and Wachowski Brothers.
 
Yeah, I think that splitting the job responsibilities down the middle, between music videos and commercials may be too limiting, for you. This is something you really need to sit down and hash out between your partner and yourself. I have worked with partners before and I was not entirely satisfied with the experiences, so good luck.
 
I considered the dual directing route, but I don't think it would work out for the two of us. I have a more traditional style and he has a much more surreal style. Take that plus the two of us having somewhat strong headed personalities, and I don't see it working. I think there's a very good reason why all of the most famous director duos are brothers.

I should also probably say that we have decided that we will both have input on every single project. Every time we get a project we are going to sit down and talk about our vision for the project and bounce ideas off each other, etc. However considering our differences in styles I think it will be very important for one of us to be in charge of every project so that when it comes down to it someone has the power to make a decision, and we go with it. Likewise on the set I think it's important for there to be one person that everyone follows.

I'm also really afraid that if we don't split the responsibilities between us that this whole venture will turn into a big contest between the two of us. We will compete to get projects, compete on the set, etc. I just don't see that has a healthy way to run a business.
 
jghenderson said:
I considered the dual directing route, but I don't think it would work out for the two of us. I have a more traditional style and he has a much more surreal style. Take that plus the two of us having somewhat strong headed personalities, and I don't see it working. I think there's a very good reason why all of the most famous director duos are brothers.

I should also probably say that we have decided that we will both have input on every single project. Every time we get a project we are going to sit down and talk about our vision for the project and bounce ideas off each other, etc. However considering our differences in styles I think it will be very important for one of us to be in charge of every project so that when it comes down to it someone has the power to make a decision, and we go with it. Likewise on the set I think it's important for there to be one person that everyone follows.

I'm also really afraid that if we don't split the responsibilities between us that this whole venture will turn into a big contest between the two of us. We will compete to get projects, compete on the set, etc. I just don't see that has a healthy way to run a business.
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Yeah, you are going to have to make sure that you are both committed to the success of the business (and your friendship), then in being right all the time. Filmmaking requires strong egos, but that has a tendency to get carried overboard. Sit down and work it out.
 
haha, sorry this post kind of cracked me up. But I started a bit like you did, so let me give you some advice from what I learned...

I started doing indie music videos, no money, I did these pro-bono to build my skills, build my portfolio, and just get my name out there. Submit to festivals, that kind of thing. Two of my videos went to 26 festivals total, I won 3 times, got a few other nominations, and definitely it was a springboard to bigger and better things. I gained a lot of confidence and just in general had tons of fun. I love music videos!

But there is ZERO money in music videos. Like... seriously. Am I saying that record labels don't pay at all? Not necessarily, but when you have major directors working for free just to do something fun between features (which, btw, happens often), then what do you think a no-name director is going to be paid to direct an indie video? Probably nothing. If you have better luck than we did, more power to you dude, but we tried for at least a year and got offers anywhere from $300 for a video to $2,000 and we were looking for $6,000 to $10,000 minimum. That's barely enough to make something good and pocket a few dollars. But the person willing to pay $2,000 wanted green screen work, child actors, stunts, 5 locations, it was easily a $60,000 video. She thought we were just wanting to produce it "for our reels," haha, I told her that producers don't have reels. We were just producing, she wanted to direct, and I'm like wtf?

Anyway, it was like trying to bleed a rock, there was no money there at all because bands have no money for videos, no matter how good your work is. And I think my work was quite good!

Commercials, at the high end of course, there is TONS of money in commercials! I'm surprised you even had to ask, haha, that's where the money is! I definitely want to get into commercial directing. I've only done a few and they were local, so I'm kind of hoping to find an agent when my feature sells and seeing about how I'd go about doing that. My goal is mainly features, but I'm really picky -- I have zero interest in directing anyone else's scripts. I look at the great directors, they share my attitude, they weren't just guns for hire, they plotted successful careers extremely carefully, like Tarantino, Spielberg, Kevin Smith, Lucas, you name it. There was a reason each project was chosen, not for a paycheck, and I am the same way. If I need to work for money, let it be as a Second Unit Director, commercial director, record label music video director (more for fun, there's so little money there -- it's non-DGA work), that kind of thing. But features are sacred to me, it has to be carefully chosen...
 
This one time i agree with Jonathan... Music videos = no money. Commercials - even on local level = $1000-1500/day at least. That said as director you won't be doing anything interesting in commercial world.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
This one time i agree with Jonathan... Music videos = no money. Commercials - even on local level = $1000-1500/day at least. That said as director you won't be doing anything interesting in commercial world.
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Yeah I am a bit afraid of getting stuck in it and not feeling like I have enough artistic freedom, but at the same time my main priority at the moment is making money. It's definitely not something I would want to do forever, as my ultimate goal is to be a feature director, but I see it as a better option for me right now.

I guess my inspiration at the moment is Joseph Kosinski, who directed some phenomenal commercials and then was given the chance to direct Tron Legacy (which is looking to be pretty amazing).
 
Well, commercials operate on using our experience of other films (rather then real life) to talk about the world while only the worst of the feature films do that... So your experience on commercials sets will only be marginally helpful if you want to direct narrative films.
 
Johnathan LB has some good advice here.


I also know a couple of duo directors who do music videos. Everything regarding the vision is hashed out beforehand. there are benefits and negatives to working this way as with everything else.

From my experience working with director teams, it works if its low budget on the fly shooting. One director can see an opportunity the other doesn't. I've never seen them argue on set, and it appears they know what they are doing. On the other hand, it makes for a longer shooting day. We would try an approach with one director, but would also try an approach with the other director. so 2x the work.


Based on your questions, it really sounds as if you want to have the sole input into the videos and be the director of the one you initiated. Don't sell out your vision! Unless you want the input...
 
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