lighting with hvx and m2 which kit?

N

Nobody356

Well-known member
Hey

So I'm taking the dive and just started ordering my new camera setup. I'm really excited and hopefully it will help me a lot. I'm going to get an HVX and m2(minolta mount), follow focus and a marshall 7inch. Now I just need to decide on lighting.

I've learned my lesson in the past and realised I can't go cheap with lighting...well its possible but a bad idea haha. In the past I have gotten some really cheap kits which just don't cut it. So this time I've decided to go with arri whic are good but pretty expensive, but they will last me a long time and I can add on to my kit later.

But my question is really about the HVX and m2... i know there is a lot of light loss so I want to make sure I'm not going to get a kit thats not going to work.

Essentially I've lowered it down to 3 kits and I'm looking for some of your oppinions...although I do have to order relatively soon so that it will be here in time for my projects this break.

Kits:

1) 2 arrilite 1000w 2 650w fresnels
http://cinemasupplies.stores.yahoo.net/arlitminkit5.html

2) 2 650w fresnels 2 300w fresnels
http://cinemasupplies.stores.yahoo.net/ar30frescomk.html

3) 2 650w fresnels 1 300w fresnel 2 150w fresnels
http://cinemasupplies.stores.yahoo.net/ar15freskit51.html


I think I like the fresnels better just because they seem to be more durable and give better control but it really is a matter of will there be enough light(and the arrilites are 1000w). That is really worrying me because I know the hvx+m2 is notorious for light loss. I'd be using these as my main lights, using my older stuff as support when/where needed. I have a mediocre set of 3 softboxed lights with 3 differently sized softboxes and the option to use 500w or 1000w bulbs on those. Also I have home depot 250w and 500w worklights and a 650 and 2 300w horrible briteks that I can use if I can fix them.

Also number 3 is the most expensive and a little bit more than I wanted to spend and it also has the 150w which are small and not very bright so I dont know how worthwhile they would be with the m2(thus why I'm asking) would that be worth the extra price?


Or if you can answer this I'd be really happy....how many footcandles are needed for things to show up on the hvx+m2

Any kind of quick reply would be greatly appreciated

Chris
 
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There isn't a "one size fit all" kit, you need to tell us what and how the lights are going to be needed for. I have a D1 kit, which include a 650, 300 and 150 fresnel it also come with a Chimera, screens, and stands. This is a perfect "interview" kit, it gives you a lot of options and flexibility. If I need more, I'll rent or borrow from friends... Also, unless you use a generator, there is a limit on how much lights you can safely use. And last I wouldn't just buy fresnels.
 
fleaguit said:
If you don't even know what light kit to buy, why on earth are you purchasing the M2 adapter?
Click to expand...

Because I'm obviously a totally inexeperienced moron entirely incapable of making any sort of decision on my own and devoid of any basic reasoning skill or intelligence. Also I am absolutely undeserving of using an m2 or any other piece of equipment as well as being unfit to continue living. I should probably just give you my M2, camera and all my money, because I could never be quite as amazing as you...

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I posted here to get some help from a community that I respect in hopes of getting some helpfull feedback. And yea I'm only 18 but I don't see the point in essentially insulting my judgement, and offereing me no usable information. If you want to call me an idiot GO AHEAD but at least tell me why. Demonstrate how much better you are than me by giving me advice. I try to leave my ego out of filmmaking but it annoys me when somone will put me down for no reason and doesnt offer any advice. Its like when somone looks at a project and says "this is ****"... sometimes it needs to be said but at least explain why and how to improve. Now lets assume I'm an idiot for buying an M2 and help me figure out what lights are going to be most usefull to an idiot like me....


ANYWAYS... Thanks for trying to help somewhereinLA heres some more information: I will be using the lighting for narrative and music video work. Music videos in general(at least mine) involve two basic types of setups...one type is a narrative style setup much like anything that would be done in narrative work, for the story part of the video and another where a lot of light is needed to light up the band while they perform. But really I want this kit to be used more for the narrative stuff as I have enough lights to light the bands decently and want this kit to focus on the quality of lighting in narrative situations. I want a kit that can provide a keylight and backlight as well as maybe a little location lighting. I have softboxed fill lights allready and many cheap floodlights that I can use to do some basic location lighting. I'd like to have my camera setup for long enough to do some tests before I bought new lighting but because of my schedule this is not possible so I'm looking for a little info here. Would it be crazy to think I could use a 650w fresnel as a key/backlight in a shared 2 person setup with the m2? All I'm asking is if that would be enough light... I know exactly what I could do with each of these kits with my current camera(dvx100a), I just am not familiar with how much different the hvx+m2 is going to be with its light loss. Also why do you say all fresnel kit is a bad choice, do you like the arrilites? They have less control and arent as sturdy if I'm not mistaken.

Could anyone tell me...for example: about how many footcandles would blow out highlights on the hvx with an open iris shooting 24p at 1/60 and a lens on the m2 at f2.8 ?? how many for 80% zebras?? or any information similar to this, If I had an idea about this I could better make my decision.

Thanks, I would really appreciate any further help as I need to make a decision soon

Chris
 
To be honest, I do have a problem with your post, and with a lot of posts in general around here. Go take a look at the HVX forum, does anything stick out like a sore thumb?

It's that anything shot with a 35mm adapter is automatically categorized as being "better" or "more film like." When the reality of what this device does, is far less important than lighting, framing, and camera motion. I've seen stuff on this board shot with the stock lense look amazing, but barely get noticed around here. Then I see something shot with the M2, in the hands of a novice, get all sorts of posts and comments.

35mm adapters are a tool, just like any other. If the HVX had interchangeable lenses, we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now. My problem is with people who think, "Hey, with this camera and this lens adapter, I can make my digital video look like a real movie. . . . oh and I should probably get some lights too." Honestly, you want to make good video? You want to make cinematic video? Take the money you would have spent on the M2, invest it in lights, lots of em. Don't spare any expense on lights, they'll far outlast the camera. And also invest some money in your camera stabilizers. Get (or build) a good dolly with some track. Pick up a glidecam 4000, and get a decent crane or jib. NOW you'll have the tools you need.

And if after all that is done, if you still have a few bucks left, pick yourself up an M2 and some lenses, just make sure you have a few bucks left to pay your AC.

-Steve
 
Hey Fleaguit,
I at least appreciate your clarification and elaboration on your point, and I do respect you oppinion, however I do disagree with you in some respects. Actually, I don't entirely disagree because what your saying IS correct for the most part. I'm not an idiot, I understand that the M2 is just a tool and that there is no magic button that is going to make my footage look good. Believe me, I know the importance of lighting, composition, camerawork and all the other factors that go into making footage look technically good(not to mention the creativity and skills directing actors needed to direct movies). I'm not saying I'm amazing at all these things, just that I know they are there and not neglecting them. I have shot with my DVX for a while and never once regretted buying it, after researching I have decided on an HVX+M2 combo because I like panasonic and the footage I've seen as well as the shallow depth of field provided by the M2. I like the prospect of using some of my minolta primes on it and the flexibility that allows. I love my DVX but the projects I am doing this winter call for high def, so the HVX is a natural progression. MY one problem with the DVX is its natural deep focus although I have gotten used to using it. Sure you can zoom in and get some shallower DOF on the end of the lens but this sint always possible if you are in tighter areas and makes handheld very shaky. I've decided to take the plunge and get a new camera and I've made sure that I'm not going the cheap route too much with regards to lighting and other issues. I already have a dolly, crane, glidecam(2000 unfourtunately...looking to upgrade though eventually) and a mediocre lighting kit that I have gotten some good results with. Despite the decent/good results I've gotten with my current kit, most of the lights are not made with quality in mind, its lighting on a budget and I pay the price by having to always be extra carefull with them and often blowing bulbs(and other problems) Right now I want to add on to my current kit with some arris, effectively starting a more permanent kit that will eventually phase out some of my older equipment. I want to spend the money on arris because they are high quality and will last me, and eventually I plan on purchasing more of them. Now sure I could spend 12 grand on lighting and continue shooting with my stock DVX and my life would become a lot easier, and my setup times quicker but the final product I put out would only be a little bit better than it allready is. I think that if you are good at lighting you can create good lighting with even the most modest tools, and if you're bad not even the best tools will make you good. There are of course reasons to buy good lighting and thats why I'm going to purchase some, but The way I'm spending my money now is going to give me more "bang for the buck" than buying only buying lighting...or selling all my equipment and saving up to buy just a RED camera and having nothing to light my scenes with and no way to use the cam except handheld.
 
Hi Chris.

Because there are so many variables that will play into the decision of the what/when/why equation of lights and lighting in regard to a HVX/M2 combo (or any combo for that matter), and since as you say you are not a beginner, then I think the best thing to do would be to hire a HVX/M2 for a couple of days and run your own tests. The problem with listening to others opinions (particularly off the net) is you have no real way of qualifying what they are claiming is going to have any truth or barring on your particular situation.

As an example, you yourself make the following statement...

"That is really worrying me because I know the hvx+m2 is notorious for light loss."

As you can see, you claim you know, when in fact you don't know anything of the sort, as that is why you are posting this question. If something is important, then it is best to test it yourself, as only then will you know how you feel about it in relation to your own specific needs.

Thanks.
Pete.
 
Nobody,

I think I can agree with you on most of what you said. I was just taking out some of my frustrations with alot of the posters on here, and with some of the negative effects of the democratization of production. So for that, my apologies. I would say to go with arri's, they're well made, and will last you a long time. Moles are great too, but abit pricier.

One light you might want to consider adding to your kit, is the lowell pro light. It looks like this tiny little nothing of a light, but we've found a use for it almost every time we've had it on set. But i'd say at the least get yourself 3 600w arris, and go from there.

-Steve
 
G'day Steve.

I've been using the Pro Lights quite a bit lately, for the price, low power draw, size and quality of light they are hard to beat. A poor mans Dedolight (almost).

Pete.
 
I am in the same boat, got HVX200+M2... I started to get some light (2x750watt 3 lamp light, and 3x Redheads 1000watt). I know now Im missing some fresnel, flag, gels and more grips gear (cstand ...)

Camera + M2 is probably the first thing that interest noob like me, because it something that show direct result. So I understand yours steps... I just wish I knew more people in my area that have the same passion... :(

After following some of the digital cinema courses from rush, I see that fresnel are important... especially for seperating your subject from the background and light specific object. The light I have rightnow are more soft, and it not good when you need to control your lightning.

As of today, I am still unsure of what I should buy... And also what brand ...
 
One thing I picked up from reading one of Dan's posts is to purchase only one or a few of the lights that you know you will absolutely use and need and then , if you can, hold on to your money until you can actually get on location and qualify the next purchase with an actual need that will dictate what kind of light to get. This way you will be putting money into lights that you will truly have uses for.

Of course it pays to know which lights outperform the others :)

That's why this forum is here .... duh

Well hopefully this advice can help a little bit with how to make purchasing decisions.
 
Skip the M2 and put the money into lighting or audio. These 35 mm adapters just don't cut it in my opinion. I've seen way too many films that just don't have ANY depth of field. The idea is to have control over the depth of field, not to get rid of it completely. Lighting, composition, camera movement, and good audio are so much more important than shallow depth of field. You could probably get a good start on a nice audio kit for the price of an adapter.
 
dont try to buy lighitng for a 35mm adapter picture if you want to have a serious movie-like picture, because you'd need more than 1kw, the minimum to have a choice and be able to limit some of the lighting would be something around 1,2 hmi...

so rent them, its cheaper and easier
i can get 1kws for free whenever i need them without a problem, you could too, just check out some local rentals, so they just arent worth a 4 digit sum
 
Perhaps I should have read the responses, but I just thought I would respond to the first question..... If you are set on buying, I would recommend getting the higher powered lights of what you are choosing or what-ever you can afford. The M2/HVX combo needs much light, and then you still have to stop down after that to get a nice balance of high and shallow dof. If you have too much light remember, you can always scrim the light, flag it, or find other creative ways to reduce the light.

Remember you can always get rid of light, but when you need more you might be screwed.

Hope that was worth something.
 
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