Lighting this situation

No, the lamp is not involved in the story, but i like the view of people sitting around a table, lit by a lamp. So, thats the reason.

I have read 2 big differences:

1. use a strong light in the lamp, thats the main lighting source

2. use a low light so it wont blow out and use other ligts around it.

These suggestions are a big difference...

(but iam very thankfull for the suggestions!)
 
Either way you probably want to put a dimmer on it just so you know you have some kind of control over it--a good DP is a control freak.
 
I have my DVX100b :)

I dont have much time to practice with it, the shoot i was talking about in this threat is tomorrow, so i have a few more quistions.

I put my Hedler video light (300watt bulb) above the table (with a construction)
So the table is lit and the actors are too -hope-.

Then i lower the exposure, so that it seems to be less light.

Then iam afraid the actors and the backgrounds are going to be almost black, so if this is the case: i use a china ball/lantern with a regular 100watt lightbulb, to light the faces of the actors. Its a bit strange, because i only have 1 chinaball and iam going to move it between cuts. (to lit the actor if its to dark)

Thats it. Can this work? Are the any other suggestions?

- - - -
The quistion above is the most important, but i have another quistion to: Iam shooting this with scene file 6 (cinelike, cinelike D gamma, 25P) fabric settings.

Are there any tips for this scene (i post a picture from E.T. at the beginning of this topic wich i like) Is cinelike D advised for a shoot like this?

To make a long story short: if there are people with advice about the use of the scene file in combination with the lighting quistion: your VERY welcome!

Greetings,
Jerry
(sorry for the long text)

Oh, here is another example of lighting people around a table, but: the cadle lights (ceiling) are the real bright? or is it just for show and are the using other filmlights to light this shot? what do you think?
 
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That middle light is just a prop..If you look on the walls to the left and to theright you will see the angle of the light and where the shadows fall. It is most likely two key lights with 216 or 1/2 diffusion set high and above. if you look at the middle actors face..look at where the shadow is ..I seems is being lit from from the left. In addition..if you look at the shadow the table is making it is most likely a fill light shot from high and top the actors to give the main actor depth. Also note how hot the top of the head of the child hair is.. when in doubt..always look where the shadows fall to give you an idea where the light is coming from. As for fill you might try using bounce cards to be used as fill. As for the china ball it is pretty much effective for close shots but..make sure your ball is qualified to handle the wattage of your bulb before use. Since not all china balls can handle the heat. I also have a fire extinquisher handy when using a china ball. PS after relooking at the ET pictures..it may be just a simple flood light with at least 3200K and a stained glass mount was used.
 
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Wondefull, wonderfull explaination!
Great! thank you!

But now, did i understand it? -the big quistion :)-
So, i have made this paint image to describe the places from the lights in images... Did i understand it?



If so, this is a whole other way than i was planning to do -tommorow!- Do you think my idea, posted above yours, is also a possible option? Or do you think the light in frame will blow out?
 
It looks good..I would put the lights a lot higher than what you posted..and behind the walls of course. As for dealing with exposure..it is best to have your fill light no more than 1/4 stop dimmer than you keylight since it is video and can blow out fast. I myself rather use gels and diffusion than using dimmers even though many use this method with great success. I use it this way for my iris will stay open wide and not effect the whole set as compared to lowering the exposure that can make the picture dark. I also use an incident meter to note differences in exposure between lights. It is said that on the dvx for film look to have the optimum iris at 2.8 and if you want film look to have your iris wide open for depth of field. but you will have to do good amount camera positioning. As for Scenefile 6 I just keep it at cinelike-d but I'm tempting to use different settings for future projects to see if I like it better. Perhaps cinelike-V. Read here for some more tips. It is best to experiment before your shoot so you will know what is best for the scene. As for blowout ..I don't think it would be that much of a problem as long as you use good diffusion. If it is too hot..you might move the light stand farther way from the subject or use the knobs on the light to adjust the spread.

http://reviews.ebay.com/PANASONIC-D...000000867469?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:SEARCH:5

http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/dvx100settings.htm
 
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There is one thing i dont yet understand about this lightingscene, if the have strong filmlights -even with diffusion- than the strongest lightsources are NOT the lamp that we see in the shot, but how do the manage to keep the light look good?
I meen: if you use a flashlight at night, it appears very bright.
Use the same flashlight in a bright place, and you can barely see it...

So this lamp that we see, is IN a very bright space (compared to the lamp itself) if they lower the exposure, the lamp must get so dark, that we dont even see it is giving light! So, the exposed the scene for the filmlights, but manage to keep the lamp good as well...
Thats a bit confusing...
 
Jerryv said:
There is one thing i dont yet understand about this lightingscene, if the have strong filmlights -even with diffusion- than the strongest lightsources are NOT the lamp that we see in the shot, but how do the manage to keep the light look good?
I meen: if you use a flashlight at night, it appears very bright.
Use the same flashlight in a bright place, and you can barely see it...

So this lamp that we see, is IN a very bright space (compared to the lamp itself) if they lower the exposure, the lamp must get so dark, that we dont even see it is giving light! So, the exposed the scene for the filmlights, but manage to keep the lamp good as well...
Thats a bit confusing...
Click to expand...

Maybe they tainted the scene in post or maybe changed out the bulbs in the lamp to a higher kelvin bulb..it's hard to say unless you are there watching them do it. but a shot like this is not very long for anyone to really focus as much as where the audience eye should focus on the actors itself. I wouldn't worry about it too much unless you're whole scene is shot this way.
 
Oke, thank you.

I did not use my construction to hang my video light above the table, i just pointed the light on the table (from above) so the angle is not perfect from up to down, but the light is a little bit from the side.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6383/testkp1.png

No other lights were used.
I dont think it looks good, but iam going to shoot it with the same light only a different angle, so iam a bit worried.

The describtion about the Signs shot is very good, but its not usefell for the shot iam going to do, there is no way i can hide the lights in that place.
So i want to use 1 bright light above the table (hard light point down, just like a normal light would) and maybe a china ball on a stick to give some background lighting to the actors.

What do you think?
 
PS after relooking at the ET pictures..it may be just a simple flood light with at least 3200K and a stained glass mount was used.
- - - - - - - - -

What do you meen? That there is a real light in the lamp we see in frame? (by 'real' i meen a strong light) if so, thats great. Altough the rest of the frame seems to be lit also. Iam not sure what you meen with 'stained glass'?
 
Try this

Try this

Well looking at the pix..Wondering is there another color shirt he could wear...that white color really doesn't give definition but instead kind of flattens out the light on your actors face. If it is a serious scene then try going a harder light but set the light closer to the camera vs to the side. You want to have the keylight produce a nose shadow that will end near the corner of his mouth. And try to get rid of that back shadow by cheating the light behind him out of view. You can do it by adjusting the height of your stand. I would take advantage of that window on the right..Maybe if possible you have another light shooting from the outside into the window with a blue CTB and make use of that plant..it can add fill to the right side of the face and left shoulder. Also maybe a gel on the keylight from the left will warm up the image to enhance his features. Don't forget to white balance.

The only way a china ball might be useful is toward the back right near the corner but I don't know if you have enough room. Just watch the shadows so people won't see your equipment.
I would also remove the little house on the right because the yellow,green and red color just draws the viewers eye toward it first vs the actor.
 
Try this

Try this

Well looking at the pix..Wondering is there another color shirt he could wear...that white color really doesn't give definition but instead kind of flattens out the light on your actors face. If it is a serious scene then try going a harder light but set the light closer to the camera vs to the side. You want to have the keylight produce a nose shadow that will end near the corner of his mouth. And try to get rid of that back shadow by cheating the light behind him out of view. You can do it by adjusting the height of your stand. I would take advantage of that window on the right..Maybe if possible you have another light shooting from the outside into the window with a blue CTB and make use of that plant..it can add fill to the right side of the face and left shoulder. Also maybe a gel on the keylight from the left will warm up the image to enhance his features. Don't forget to white balance.

The only way a china ball might be useful is toward the back right near the corner but I don't know if you have enough room. Just watch the shadows so people won't see your equipment.
I would also remove the little house on the right because the yellow,green and red color just draws the viewers eye toward it first vs the actor.

RE: stained glass by meaning the lamp shade image.
 
Thank you smithy!

I also use other points of view, and 1 of them is pointing to the window, so if i shine a blue light (moonlight) to the window, the camera must shoot against it. Do you dont think its strange to have moonlight AND inhouse lighting? because those two thing dont uselly get used togheter i think.

Your recommendation is to use more lights, to deal with the shadows.
My idea to use only 1 light above the table is not going to work nicely without filling in the shadows.

Today is the big day! If you have any other suggestions, there welcome!
 
Well that ET picture used more than 1 light. There looks like at least 2 key lights on the actors. One directly on the kid with the phone and the other actor across the table at a lower intensity from the other direction. They also turned down all other lights in the immediate area to reduce cross lighting. Kind of hard in your situation because your shooting into a corner. You could always cheat and shoot the other direction..but make sure to not violate "crossing the line" or it will be hard to fix it in post. good luck.

http://www.mediacollege.com/video/editing/transition/reverse-cut.html
 
Not just a corner, but different angles arround the table.
Here is a picture of the livingroom, you see there is not much space at te sides to place the lights.

livingroomso8.jpg


I want to shoot to the window, so we can see outside (for a shot) so iam dealing with reflection also :crybaby:

The main approuch now is to hang the videolight above the table into a lamp, and just do it with 1 main lightsource (the actors are sitting arround the table and getting lit by the lamp) Altough the faces get lit that way, the background is not... but maybe it works...

I use the china ball as backup.
 
>Its a bit strange, because i only have 1 chinaball and iam going to move it >between cuts. (to lit the actor if its to dark)


That's what I would do. Us the china ball for a key Put it where the lamp is now, and move it around for each closeup. For the wide shot, use the practical (if you want it in the shoot) and use a light up high, out of frame to put a pool of light on the table, as if the hanging lamp were causing it. I'd also bounce a light off the ceiling for fill and get rid of the socks in the frame. ;-)

I'm assuming you are shooting at night... If camera reflection is a problem, make sure to cover yourself in black duvateen or cloth, like a ghost with a hole for the lens and have a black cloth behind you. That should hide the camera reflection.

Best of luck, and have fun!
 
my 2 cents.

my 2 cents.

Jerryv said:
Not just a corner, but different angles arround the table.
Here is a picture of the livingroom, you see there is not much space at te sides to place the lights.

livingroomso8.jpg


I want to shoot to the window, so we can see outside (for a shot) so iam dealing with reflection also :crybaby:

The main approuch now is to hang the videolight above the table into a lamp, and just do it with 1 main lightsource (the actors are sitting arround the table and getting lit by the lamp) Altough the faces get lit that way, the background is not... but maybe it works...

I use the china ball as backup.
Click to expand...

Well from that pix..here is what you might consider. For reflection..get a polarizer filter that will screw on you camera to reduce glare. Tiffen or Schneider makes them. (72mm on a DVX100A). Next for your main light ..drop it down close to the actors...like 10-12 inches above their heads..Perhaps use a whole different lamp..the chandelier might not be able to be believable as a strong source of light so it might as well be hung up high and out of sight (never photographed) and replaced by the china lattern. Is there a particular reason to shoot thru the window? If not then I would leave the shot out or go outside and shoot from the outside toward the lighted room as a lead in shot to establish time of day. Since you have a opening on the right side of the room..You might consider taking out the cabinet on the right and rotate the table 90 degrees and away from the window. This way you can have the actors sit and have room to manuver as if you are shooting from the doorway looking in. You can also set it up where you will put the chairs on the ends and have one person on each side of the table vs sitting side by side. You will have to experiment with this to really see it..but imagine the shots from the audience or actors POV. Ask yourself what is the most interesting shot to help forward your story? I would shoot them very close up..and at just at table level to have the china lattern be seen but trying not to get much background furniture into the shot. This will also help out if you are using a boompole to get it close to the actors. For fill use foamcore to bounce the light and highlight any dark spots needed. Also make sure the rest of the lights are off or low light if not in the shot.. that way only the actors will be seen. Then maybe you can get your ET effect this way with minimal lights and still have freedom to do different angles. In addition..put some type of props on the table so it will break up the light and not look like the people have no reason to be sitting there, try to stay away from any materials that will produce a glare. ( IE having dinner, playing cards etc..) Also you might consider using that candle in the middle of the table to create a secondary light source for fill. Just make sure you have a fire extinguisher around since you are using also a china lattern that is very flammable.
 
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This is what I would do. Put a china ball above the table for the key, low as it can go but no be in frame (to keep for getting Godfather shadows). Then i would take your 1k outside and blast it through the windows to simulate moonlight or streetlight, your choice. this will back light the characters to your right of this picture, create a mix of color on the table, and for those actors to the left of the picture, but a dimmed practical in the background (looks like there is a door there just out of frame) and then hit them with your 300w for a back light supposedly coming from the practical.

1156872118.jpg
 
Nice paint image :)

But i just shot it before i saw your reply.

Lukely, it was a test with all the lights (tomorow i shoot it with the actors, today i did the lighting test, so there is no time for test-lighting anymore)

I was really looking forward to shoot the test-scenes, and i did read a lot of replies carefully. I will post some frames tomorrow morning (its late at night right know)
The lighting looks good i think, the colours too...

BUT: When playback on a regular tv screen it looks awfull grainy.
Especilly the 'dark' parst of the frame is 'moving' with grainpixels...

I did NOT use the gain setting, i shot it with 0 db.

I had enough exposure (but even if i did not have enough light: the gain was off, so why should there be any gain? it must just get black)

I expososed the scene for the brightest object in the room. So i lower the exposure untill there was no overexposure from the brightest light. Therefore, the rest of the room was getting a lot darker but the bright object appeard fine.
It was the look i wanted.

But playback on a tv (video out cable pluged in tv) its grainy and moving.

It was shot with scene file 6, no changes made.
(unless for exposure and manual WB)

So, what can i do? because: when you shoot something brighter/overexposed than the rest in the frame and you lower exposure to make it look right, the rest of the frame gets darker. Bu is it normal to have grain with it also?

Hope someone knows!

Thanks!
 
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