lighting the entire dining room

D

DDirector

Veteran
In 2 weeks (Wed, 12th) we are shooting a commercial.

The female actor sits at a dinner table and is looking across the table as if to another person (but no one is seen).
We dont want any open windows in the shot as we don't want to see outside - windows may not even be in the shot but in the room elsewhere. I was thinking of blocking out the windows to control my own light. But I don't know how I should light the room so its bright but yet doesn't look totally fake.

We are shooting on an Arri SRII (16mm - colour) and only have a light meter to determin lighting.
These are our lights we have available:
Arri 1K (2x)
Arri 650
Arri 300 (2x)
Arri 150
Kino Flo Deva


I'm not too sure how we should light the room so its fairly lit. I know how to light actors, but not the room nicely.
Any tips?

*we currently don't have a location as of yet. The actual room will not be very large, but there will be a connecting living room where there will be a couch. The couch in the other room will be visible along with the dining room for one shot. (Depending upon location, it may be changed) The rest is done in the dining room at one table. There will be some set dec in the back so its not too plain. Lighting it and having ugly shadows going all over the place worries me.

I would like to add the venetian blind shadow on the wall behind the actress, so you know there is a window nearby. I know how to pull this off, but not the whole room being lit.
Help? :)
 
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Like when watching certain films where characters are in a large room, such as a restaurant, The place is lit brightly but it doesn't look artificial and sometimes no windows are visible in the shot. I don't know how to accomplish this. Whether it would be film or digital
 
The only thing that I can think of that I can do is have the 1K and make it a large soft light and point it from the direction of the window to light the background. I don't know if that'll look good though
 
DDirector said:
The only thing that I can think of that I can do is have the 1K and make it a large soft light and point it from the direction of the window to light the background. I don't know if that'll look good though
Click to expand...

If you have the equipment you listed available to you now, I'd suggest that you set it up and start experimenting with what will 'work'. I'd also develop a note book filled with examples in film of 'big spaces', and at least 'guesses' how the lighting was setup, as well as perhaps research some American Cinematographer back issues for similar setups, and often have diagrams or at least pictures of the set for you to analyze.

The light meter will assist in measuring the ratios on the set. But for a priori analysis, getting the photometric data on the lights you are using, and finding out what their falloff is, and then working that into what you want to light, is the process required... well... unless you have the location for a couple of days, and just experiment...
 
I dont have access to the location and I dont have access to all the equipment. I will only have it available the day before the shoot.

The biggest thing about this is having those windows in the room. Im pretty sure there will not be a nearby location of what we are looking for that has no windows i the room. So, I wanted to know if just leaving that window unblocked, and allowing natural ambient light to enter the room would be good to do. Or if it should really be blocked off.
If it were to be open, the room would be nearly lit and look more natural. But if we have to block it off, then itll have to be mimicked.
 
I'll take a stab at answering this. The biggest thing to tackle is color temperature but luckily you've decided not to have the window in the shot.

So you can block off the window to kill the blue sunlight and stick with your arri's and hopefully wherever you are it is cold enough to counter the heat from those lights. You don't want your girl sweating.

The other way to go is to use the light coming from the window and your kino flo and avoid the arri's. You might have to play with shadows in your image because of only two light sources. Depends on the window. Also play with practicals. eg lamps in the back ground. This could be nice and moody if thats what you want. Issues with this set up would be changing cloud cover will alter your light during the course of the day.

If you want the venetian blind shadows I would go with the arri's. I would block the window off and set up a huge white reflector and bounce your two 1k's off it to create a large rectangular light source like a window. The arri's are hard light fresnels so you could hang a venetian blind of camera between the reflector and the wall and you'll get your shadows. Then the other arris you can use where needed. Have you got softboxes? Put the two 300's in soft boxes, diffuse the 600 and use it to kill any big shadow caused by light hitting a table and the 150 can be the hair light. (Then pray the talent doesn't sweat much)

In an ideal situation I would shoot this scene with soft kino's for fill and hmi's thru the window for key light (thru venetians for shadows). Then bring in tungsten where needed in practicals to make the background interesting.

Whatever way you go, make a judgement early in the day as to how much of the room you want to light. You said its a big room? If its huge don't try to light it all. Only bite off what you can chew so to speak. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
 
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Cool cool.

I originally hoped we could block off the window and use lights through the window as the Key as you mentioned but we dont have the equipment to block of the sunlight and use our own light outside. So, its either using the sun, or artificial light.

When you said to use the HMI's (Which I only have Arris) to make the venetian blind, it should spill onto the actress as a key and the wall?
Then the Kino on the other side to fill her shadows?

No, I dont have any softboxes.

------
Below I attached a very rough layout of how the room will most likely look like.
 

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by the look of that room its looks small. I was imagining a huge room like in a big restaurant! If that diagram is in proportion to the sofa seat then you will have to be careful of light bouncing around in it too much (you have no softboxes.) If you're not blocking off the windows you can put the 1k's outside and shine them thru the windows. This buys you more space and helps create more realistic shadows and lighting. The resulting light will be a mix of daylight and tungsten which can be quite pleasant. By the loks of your diagram your window/1k's will not be fill it will be back lit. With no softboxes you should buy 1 stop frost diffusion and pin it onto the arri barn doors. Don't be afraid to double it up if you need to. you want that soft light to fill her shadow/face because she is facing away from the window. I wouldn't put the light across at an angle like you have, this would create a shadow on the left side of her face when there shouldn't be one there (because the light is from behind her. I would try to put the fill mostly front on across the table and very soft so the backlight/window gives her a halo. Or move the girl so the window light hits the front of her at an angle then use the soft will for the other side of her face.
 
Your best bet is a fast film stock and invest in some inexpensive Chinese lanterns. When I light a big room like this I generally use space lights which are essentially Chinese lanterns with a lot more power.
 
I just wanted to know a few things:
1) Should I block off the window? - If I do, it may be hard to light the background and get a venetian blind effect
2) Should I just put a 1K outside with CTB gel on it and shoot through the window & blinds?
3) What film stock should I get? (ISO/ASA & temperature)
 
For a high key, day interior, you would want the lighting up higher. Say the key light would be a stop over,
and the shadow/fill side would be lit on key (lit to the f-stop you are using). I would try to utilize the window
light, but I would buy a window treatment--a shear and an opaque curtain, so the light can be controlled, if needed.
If you have the ability to scout the location, you then can choose a time to shoot when the light works best thru the window,
if you have that flexibility.
If you are not seeing the entire room, you can always have an unexplained source, a key from one side. Then you can bounce
the fill off the ceiling(if it's white), or bounce off a 4'x4' card(or both). Consider using pools of bright light instead of "blinds",
to me it's more current and believable. As far as color temp goes---Since you have a limited lighting package, use tungsten film
and filter the window with CTO. If you do this, you will be able to utilize the full power of the lighting fixtures you have.

Hope this helps!
 
So, I made a better diagram of how the room may look like.
There are two diagrams because I am uncertain which camera position would be better too.

What I am asking is, I believe we will do the setup as in the second diagram, so where you put the lights?

Triangles are camera positions. Its a dolly shot. from Position A to position B

*We may be able to put CTO gel on the window, and maybe ND if we have any.

Available lights:
Arri 1K (2x)
Arri 650
Arri 300 (2x)
Arri 150
Kino Flo Diva
Reflector
CTB & CTO Gels


I think I have an idea where to place the lights, but I just want to see if what you say would be like what I was thinking.
 

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