lighting technique for golf course talking heads/instructors

O

olindacat

Well-known member
Aloha! Can anyone share any techniques that might help my wife and I? We are shooting run and gun style on-location golf course footage, and we need to show the background and the clouds and not have them blown out, and at same time make talking heads look great. We have tried reflectors and they are not too great. We also have a Cool Lights 600 but no batteries for it (plug only). We usually 'roll' sharing a golf cart and use a tripod, but don't have power (usually). Given this, is a 3 pt lighting set-up still necessary and does anyone want to chime in on what might best work, and not break us financially? I usually shoot RAW stills for beauty shots but not with talking heads. I don't think it is the camera (D800E) but more the operator :-) not doing proper lighting. Is there a simple way to do this well? (I am not adverse to spending money, I just want to spent it carefully.) Thanks for any help.
 
Nice to hear from you David. I am not very good at power supply calculations. Is that Duracell a fairly long-lasting battery? I don't need all day, or could buy a couple of these. Do yo know how to calculate how long one might last me? Also, it seems to have three AC plugs. Could I run two more lights off of it? Do you think I need three? (I ask this because I have never even tried three in the field, but recall years ago watching Barry's video and pretty sure they always used 3 lights on talking heads (I could be wrong).
 
It's difficult to say how much power it will provide. It is rated at 26 amp-hours. If there were no losses in the inverter, it would give you one hour of use of a 300 watt light.
 
Thing is, do I need the 600 or can I live with a few smaller ones? Even that old post was confusing and Coollights website isn't helping much. Are flos a possibility, or overkill? They have an interview set-up (2 lights) here:

http://www.coollights.biz/cool-lights-portaflo-interview-dimmable-p-158.html

It's a lot of money. I wonder if those are like old florescent bulbs in school, that are easy to break. Lots of wind on the course.

David W. Jones said:
More money and noise, but something like a quiet Honda or Yamaha inverter generator would give you a fair amount of power.
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This one says 2 x 55watts or 110 watts. Since the Duracell Powerpack 600 has about 300 watt-hours, it will run one of those fixtures for less than 3 hours. 300 divided by 110 = 2.72 hours. It would run 3 of these fixtures for less than an hour.

http://www.coollights.biz/cl255pmd-....html?osCsid=0899fb9a42f9c8ed029943ab1ab462a6

With a generator, you need to know how many continuous watts (as opposed to peak watts) the generator will supply. Then add up all the fixtures power consumption. They need to be less than the generators capacity.

Example:

A 2000 watt continuous generator. It will support about four 500 watt fixtures (4 x 500 = 2000)

For batteries, it is a bit more complicated. You need to know the watt-hours capacity of the battery. It is usually listed as amp-hours or milliamp-hours. Multiply the voltage of the battery times the amp-hours and you have the watt-hours of the battery. To determine how long a battery will last, divide the total power consumption in watts into the watt-hours, and that is how long the battery lasts.

So the 26 amp-hour battery used in the Duracell Powerpack 600 has 26 amp-hours x 12 volts = 312 watt-hours

So it can run a 300 watt lamp for one hour (300 watts x 1 hour = 300 watt-hours. It can run three 100 watt lamps for one hour (3 x 100watts x 1 hour = 300). The actual time is probably less due to some losses in the inverter.
 
It would seem to me that you wouldn't need actual lights. Really the least that will do anything substantial for you outdoors would be something like an 800w joker.

What sort of reflectors have you tried that you were unsatisfied with? The collapsible 5 in 1 reflectors aren't too good but something more rigid like bead board can do great things for outdoor use. Depending on the depth of field of your shot, you might also be able to use a 4x4 net behind your talent to slow down the background.
 
Have you given any thought as to the time of day you shoot this? Of course you can't shoot everything during "magic hour" , but shooting 2-3 hours after sunup and before sundown can help solve a multitude of lighting issues. Golf courses look great at those times of day.
 
Thanks, Paul. I thank God for people with brains like you :-)

Paul F said:
This one says 2 x 55watts or 110 watts. Since the Duracell Powerpack 600 has about 300 watt-hours, it will run one of those fixtures for less than 3 hours. 300 divided by 110 = 2.72 hours. It would run 3 of these fixtures for less than an hour.

http://www.coollights.biz/cl255pmd-....html?osCsid=0899fb9a42f9c8ed029943ab1ab462a6

With a generator, you need to know how many continuous watts (as opposed to peak watts) the generator will supply. Then add up all the fixtures power consumption. They need to be less than the generators capacity.

Example:

A 2000 watt continuous generator. It will support about four 500 watt fixtures (4 x 500 = 2000)

For batteries, it is a bit more complicated. You need to know the watt-hours capacity of the battery. It is usually listed as amp-hours or milliamp-hours. Multiply the voltage of the battery times the amp-hours and you have the watt-hours of the battery. To determine how long a battery will last, divide the total power consumption in watts into the watt-hours, and that is how long the battery lasts.

So the 26 amp-hour battery used in the Duracell Powerpack 600 has 26 amp-hours x 12 volts = 312 watt-hours

So it can run a 300 watt lamp for one hour (300 watts x 1 hour = 300 watt-hours. It can run three 100 watt lamps for one hour (3 x 100watts x 1 hour = 300). The actual time is probably less due to some losses in the inverter.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, huh? Those Jokers aren't cheap are they? But worth it I'm guessing? More so than LEDs? I have tried the collapsibles as well as even white foam core. It gets a little windy and the sun his high, we are moving from place-to-place, and Marie struggles with hold them steady in the breeze, so faces show the shimmer. We aren't trying to isolate the talking head, in fact the opposite, as the view behind is key. This, the film plane/dof is as big as I can make it

Moseph said:
It would seem to me that you wouldn't need actual lights. Really the least that will do anything substantial for you outdoors would be something like an 800w joker.

What sort of reflectors have you tried that you were unsatisfied with? The collapsible 5 in 1 reflectors aren't too good but something more rigid like bead board can do great things for outdoor use. Depending on the depth of field of your shot, you might also be able to use a 4x4 net behind your talent to slow down the background.
Click to expand...
 
Wind mainly. Hard to lock down or hold a reflector steady in 30mph gales sometimes. This is not always the case, but often. As the day wears on, it gets hotter and hotter, and that brings more wind. Two or three small/stable lights were my thought, but they can blow over too. NIce to hear from you Paul.
 
mainstreetprod said:
Have you given any thought as to the time of day you shoot this? Of course you can't shoot everything during "magic hour" , but shooting 2-3 hours after sunup and before sundown can help solve a multitude of lighting issues. Golf courses look great at those times of day.
Click to expand...

Oh yes I have. Been shooting in these conditions (stills) for about 20 years. Doing video in it for a out three. I manage with a simple white sheet of foamcore (at times) but it isn't always very good. I am just checking in as there is always someone smarter out there, esp in my case ;-)
 
olindacat said:
Yeah, huh? Those Jokers aren't cheap are they? But worth it I'm guessing? More so than LEDs?
Click to expand...
Worth it more than LED's? Certainly, LED's will have nowhere near enough punch for a day exterior on a golf course. But overall worth it for what you're doing? I say no, because even that will not have enough output on a sunny day, and as soon as you have a light over 200 watts, you have to address getting power to it.
olindacat said:
I have tried the collapsibles as well as even white foam core. It gets a little windy and the sun his high, we are moving from place-to-place, and Marie struggles with hold them steady in the breeze, so faces show the shimmer.
Click to expand...
Logistically it may be tough for you to pull off if you're sharing a golf cart. There's a reason that G&E comes in several 40' trailers for majors, the stuff takes up lots of space. But if you can manage to get a couple 2k/reflector stands and some shot bags (shot bags take up less space than sandbags), your bead board will stay still. I've never seen a light or reflector get blown over outside except for one time when a 4x8 bead wasn't bagged for whatever reason.

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned that you should watch out for is the light reflected off the ground into your talent's face will likely have a nasty green cast to it. Again, the best solution to this requires some heavier pieces of equipment if it's windy out.
 
Thanks for the help, Moseph. I know about the green cast. It is a PITA let me tell you :-) I am going to look online to see what I can learn about these 2k/reflector stands.
 
Paul Hudson said:
Why are your bounce sources not working for you?
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As we're somewhat discussing in the other thread, I agree with Paul. There is not much reason why the bouncing shouldn't work.

Those home depot 4x8 sheets of styrofoam with silver side can be bought in many different thicknesses and if needed glued to plywood. From there they can be attached to stands in a variety of ways from clamps, to retro fit 5/8 stud receivers, etc..

The other reason I use thick foam based refectors over fabric ones is because I find some fabric reflectors can flutter in the wind or flop around a bit if not really setup right and this just looks awful on your subjects face - like there is a swimming pool nearby or something. :happy:
 
one thing i didn't see posted which can be a big factor, is FOV. are these really wide talking heads? or just wide enough to get some background? if it's narrow enough, and the subject is framed 3/4 to one side, getting a key/fill on that side might be far easier since you can have the light source be closer to them just off frame. on that same token, if you're not framing the feet, might be room for a light source close to them there. depends on the sun too. if your day is overcast, you might have a fantastic image with no extra light sources

in full sun, with no power, i prefer to just silk the subject, aiming powerful lights or reflectors at them will likely make them squint awkwardly, pointing them into the sun and then diffusing the sun with a silk makes for a much more comfortable subject. as for the wind problem, reflectors will of course be susceptible, but silks overhead can be pointed more parallel to the wind, so anchoring them won't be as much of an issue.
 
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