Lighting Night Time interiors

djkarn105

djkarn105

Well-known member
So I'm in a bit of a pickle. My DP had a death in the family and is going to have to miss the first day of our shoot.

Now when talking about it in pre-production we had been talking about lighting these two scenes primarily with soft overheads. I want the lighting to look very naturalistic, almost as if it was shot with available light. (Think In The Mood For Love).
Both scenes take place at night / late evening. The pictures below are what I'm thinking for the master shots ( I can get in a little tighter to hide lights if needed)

We're shooting on the GH-1, a mix of Zeiss and Nikon Primes.

here is the first location
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3634936258_b6b4965cfa_b.jpg

3 people, mother daughter and child, sitting around the dinner table. That photograph is a t iso 400 f5.6

My plan is to put 8 100watt cfl's into the existing fixture and have a China ball off camera left to give some ambience to the forground but does anyone have more ideas about some other details? This is in San Francisco so there should be a bit of ambient light coming through the window. Maybe hand a daylight balanced china ball out there to amp that up?

Here's the second shot. The wall unit is pretty much against the wall but the room extands another 8 - 10 feet behind the sofa. The scene is a little girl watching TV.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3309/3634944638_748fb308da_b.jpg

What I'm thinking is hide a bluish 250w behind the wall unit shining on the little girl to simulate the TV. Replace the bulb in the lamp with a 300w cfl and then some china's overhead to bring up ambiance.

Thoughts? Comments?
 
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Ok, questions:

1. What time of day are these scenes supposed to be? Are we talking daylight here, or is the dinner table scene at dinner?

2. What angles do you have for the shots? Can you merely SUGGEST the window in the first scene or is it in frame? Do we see the windows in the second shot or are you shooting an angle that hides them?
 
updated the OP but night time and the pictures are essentially what I want for the master. At the dinner table we'll probably hide the ceiling but I think the window can't be hidden. Also, to the right of the dinner table there are double doors to another room that I can put lights in.
 
Ok,

For the first shot here is what I'd do:

Put 100w CFLs in the two sconces on the back wall. This will get them up to a level they'll read well.

Put 4-8 100w CFLs in the fixture above the table. The combo should give you at least F4 at ISO320 or so. You've got 600 - 1kw of light less than 6ft from any face.

I'd place a small light (clamp light will work great) up on the piece of furniture at camera right. Place a 75w CFL in there that is a color temp below the others. In other words, if you are using 3500k for the other bulbs, do that one at 2700. And let that be an unmotivated incandescent somewhere off camera. Watch for reflections in the glass, and you may need to diffuse that light a bit. That should give you just a kiss of modeling.

This will be a scene you can move around in easily without a bunch of fixtures getting in the way. For closeups and two-shots, bring in your china-ball as needed. Slightly warm of you are shooting from the camera right side of the room, neutral if you are straight on or shooting from the camera left side of the room.



For the second shot:

If you are going to simulate the TV image on her face, then I have to assume you will not actually show the TV. If so, then use some gels cut into strips and taped to a stick sawed across one another to simulate moving patterns. TV is not static. Use the table lamp in the shot as her key (white balance it to read incandescent warm) and use something off camera left as fill. Probably a broad source to pick up the sofa, table, etc., but be sure to position so it falls off toward the top of the room.
 
If I wanted to show the TV how would you recommend doing that?
I was thinking the crt wouldn't be strong enough to read so I should augment it some.
 
Point your camera at it and see what it reads. Then set your lighting accordingly. In a room with viewing lights on, the TV should be as bright or brighter than anything else. Make sure to turn up the brightness on the TV all the way. You'd be surprised how bright they can get. You just need an establishing shot to "sell" the TV as light, once you re-frame you can do whatever you want.

I suggest for continuity's sake, you use a DVD of something you've shot. Could just be car's in a parking lot or something. Then have someone off camera cue the player each time you yell action.
 
I think they both came out VERY nicely! Great job man! Do you like them?? Did you take stills of how you did the lighting?
 
they're both the same room. For the daytime stuff we had two 1k soft-boxes off screen right with the daylight coming in the window as a backlight.

At night, we replaced the fixtures in the overhead lighting with 4x100w cfl's and had a 150 shining in from the kitchen from the left to fill in a little bit.

We put a clamp light shining on the door way to give the foreground some texture.
 
PerroneFord said:
So basically, you tried to use the setup I suggested? If so, I'm pleased it came out so well...
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Reading along, I was going to reply but your response was so good I had little to add or change except a tweak or two according to my tastes.

One look I do like for the night dinner scene is to flag off the walls more making a pool of soft light over the table and the background distinctly darker, down a stop or two. The simplest way would be to skirt the fixture above the table with some Duvetyne.

Everybody does things differently and I am pleased to see how well it worked to put cfls in the table fixture. My instant reaction to seeing the picture of the set was to raise the practical light out of the way and either hang a KinoFlo from the same place or use a goal post rig or menace arm to place a soft source centered above the table.

A cheap way would have been to use a skirted China ball but what you suggested obviously worked great.

There must be a thousand ways to do a TV gag. I'll try your interesting one. To get TV right one needs to sit and observe someone watching TV to see both how rapidly and how slowly TV lighting changes the faces of its watchers and the room ambient level where the TV is.

BTW, djkarn105, I saw Generations on your slate and your shots instantly made a lot of sense, at least in my imagination. Not understanding a word, I still see that this is an intergenerational struggle, complicated and accentuated by a culture clash as the older generation seeks to hang on to the old values from the old country and the younger wants to assimilate. If I got that right credit your "showing-not-just-telling."

Good material to cut from.
 
Good points, but given the "master" I was looking at, there wasn't going to be room to drop a toplight with a skirt and stay out of frame. Otherwise I would have suggested that right off the bat. With as wide as that master was going to be, practicals and hidden motivated lights seemed the only logical suggestions.

I also reasoned that someone having access to a menace arm or a boom capable of flying a fixture into a master like that, wouldn't be asking for this kind of advice. It seemed to call for a very simple (and inexpensive) solution that was always going to be a compromise. But you are right, those are tools that would have been very helpful to have.

TV Gags are generally only noticeable when doon poorly. And the easiest way to me to get it right is to let the TV actually play program material, and make sure it's bright enough to actually read on the face. At night, this is clearly easier to do. If you've got to fight the sun, it's MUCH harder to do.

Like you, I saw the slate, and the program material, and thought this was going to be something good. Kind of project I'd love to be involved with.
 
PerroneFord said:
Uh oh... I think I learn as much here or more than I dole out advice. I'm still a relative newbie to this game compared to some of the real filmmakers.
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Nah, you're good. Lighting is something you keep learning all your life, if it grabs you like it does you and me, because it's at that wonderful intersection of technology and aesthetics.

---

How good are you at creating catchlights in the eye when the director or DP suddenly decide they want some sparkle after the whole setup is complete? Oh, and you can't add any fill to the face, you just have to supply a reflection. I find this easier said than done.
 
PerroneFord said:
TV Gags are generally only noticeable when doon poorly. And the easiest way to me to get it right is to let the TV actually play program material,
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention we bumped the glow from the tv a little with a gelled 60w wrapped in cinefoil hidden behind the TV.

PerroneFord said:
Like you, I saw the slate, and the program material, and thought this was going to be something good. Kind of project I'd love to be involved with.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the warm words guys. This project has been in the pipe for a while and I'm super excited about its potential. Will def keep the board posted about progress.
 
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