Lighting Help

[skywalks]

Hello,

I've gone over all of the turorials listed above, I still for the life of me can't decide what kind of equiptment I need. Watts, types of lights. I have a list of scenes and descriptions, along with labeled drawings of the locations and some photos. I was wondering if someone with more experience wouldn't mind taking a look at it all for me and perhaps letting me know what all equiptment I can get away with renting for about 2-3 thousand dollars. For a 3 week shoot. Thanks

 

[cardmaverick]

Why not post it online and let us all read it over and give our thoughts. Renting is certainly the way to go too, your already making good choices :thumbsup:

 

[skywalks]

Alrighty, Well I'll post my little notes then the pictures.

Scene 1- Location 1- Evening
This is a brief Montage of the interior of a mansion.
It shows the entrance way which is wide and has a large
spiral stair case directly in front of it.
The Next Shot is a two characters eating at a dining room table.
It is long, and i'd like it to have a finding neverland diner scene
vibe.
The next shot is one of the characters brushing their teeth
in the bathroom.
The next shot the character is in bed, likely with the lights
off and a crack in the door. Revealing a line of light on the character
in bed. As well the other character is peeking through the crack.
The room is possibly lit by candles. Not entirely dark. The character
outside the door enters and reads a story. So I suppose the candle
light / whatever lights we use to light this scene would need to be
sufficient to lead the audience to believe it is bright enough to read. But
not too bright.
Location 2- Small House- Day
Two characters make love in the bedroom. One Character Gets
up and goes in the bathroom. The mood is a bit dark in the bathroom.
The girl bangs on the outside of the door. He goes out into the entrance
way , talks to her briefly than leaves.
Location 3- Outside- Walking Day time
A character is walking out of the house. A brief montage. He walks
at a constant speed. The camera is always about 2 meters in front
of him moving at the same constant rate.
Location 4- Exterior House-Front Door step- Daytime
Two characters converse on the front door step. One at the bottom facing
up the other at the top facing down.
Location 4- Interior House Living Room-Day time
The two characters are sitting on the couch talking.
Location 4-Interior Kitchen Table- Daytime
The two are eating at the kitchen table.
One sitting to the west the other to the north.
Location 5-Exterior Street- Daytime
One character is sneaking around the streets in the daylight
Location 6-interior Pawn shop-Daytime
The main character walks into the main entrance
and sees a beautiful girl at the front counter. I would
like it to be an angelic dream like lighting. He stumbles
around a bit, then i'd like her to laugh at him and the angelic
lighting to disipate to a natural daylight/storelight in the pawn shop.
Location 7-Exterior Allyway- Daytime
The main character is in a sleezy ally talking to someone.
Location 4-Bathroom-Evening
The main character is sitting in the shower while it runs on him
Location4- Hallway/Living Room-Evening
The character leaves the bathroom and takes a few small strides into the living
room. He lays on the couch and goes to sleep.
Location 4- Living Room Couch-Morning
The main character is awoken on his couch by a character weilding a flashlight.
It is being shined in his face. Another character enters and turns on the lights.
Location 4-Kitchen-Morning
The three characters are eating breakfast. In the North,east and west spots
of the table.
Location 8-Exterior Paper route-Day
The two chracters are walking along a paper route. The stop at a house and talk before
the scene ends.
Location 9-Exterior Bike rack-day
The main character walks up to a bike rack and gets beaten up.
Location 6-Interior Pawn Shop-Day
The main character walks in. He and the counter girl converse.
Location 6- Exterior pawn shop-day
As he is leaving he is apprehended by ruthless thugs.
Location 10-Bus- Evening
The main Character catches a bus. It is only shown breifly. possibly
one shot.
Location 4-Kitchen-Evening
The Three characters are eating supper in the north, east and west positions.
Talking and eating.
Location 4-Bathroom Evening-
The main character goes in the bathroom. It's a bit dark of a scene. he is upset.
One of the other characters comes and knocks on the door and is talking from the
other side of the door.
Location 4- Bedroom-Evening
the three characters are gathered in two of the main characters bedroom.
It is a Time lapse montage of them helping the third character find
something to wear. It is a warmer more happy scene. The converse
before and after the time lapse.
Location 11- Interior Car-Evening
The three characters get in the car. They drive to the pawn shop
Location 6-Exterior Pawn Shop Evening
The Main character gets out of the back seat. He goes to the door way
where the girl is waiting outside in the pale moonlight. The talk for a moment.
Then they retreat to the warmth of the car.
Location 11- Interior Car-Evening
Now all four of them are in the car on their way to the movie theater
Location 12-Exterior movie theater-Night
The two characters in the front drop the other two off out front of the movie
theater. They talk from outside the car to the two remaining in the car for
a moment.
Location 12- Interior Movie Theater Pop corn Line
The main character waits in the pop corn line.
Location 12-Inteior Bathroom
He gets mugged in the bathroom. It is a medium sized washroom. 1 or two
stalls and 2 urenals.
Location 12-Interior Movie Screenin Room
The main character sits next to his gal who is waiting for him to return
and for the movie to start.
Location 4- Living Room Couch-Morning
The main character is awoken by two eager
roomates who are sitting on the floor in front of the couch.
Location 4- kitchen-Morning
The three are in the north east west positions eating breakfast.
Location 13-Resteraunt Evening
Three characters are having diner at a fancy resteraunt. One of
the characters begins to tell a story. They're table is somewhat
in the center of the large resteraunt.
Location 14-Exterior Appartment-Hallway-Evening
Two characters say goodnight in the hallway
of an appartment building. it is a long hallway. A real
romantic tone to the scene.
Location 15-Hospital Hallway- Evening
It is a long Brightly lit hospital hallway The characters
talk to a doctor.
Location 16-Exteior Park Bench-day
The characters are on a park bench eating ice cream. A real
cool feel to the atmosphere.
Location17- Grocery Store-Day
There are long aisles. One character walks along the ends of them.
He chooses his aisles walks to the center of it. He is greated by a
store employee then his friends join him in the aisles.
Location 18-Bad Guy Headquarters
The bad guy is sitting in a very dark room, with only a lamp lit on his
desk. His hired goons enter. He speaks to them and they leave.
Location 19- Coffee Shop- Evening
Two characters are siting opposite of each other
at a small round table in a coffee shop during the dark
hours of the evening.
Location 4-Main Entrance/Living room- evening
It is a lower than normal light evening. Two
of the characters are watching tv. another arrives in the
doorway from the coffee shop.
Location4-Living room- Evening
The main character is lying on the couch wide awak
it is 4 am. He is joined by one of the other characters
for a moment to talk. This is followed by an over head of each
seperate character of the 3 main characters trying to sleep.
Location 4- Kitchen- Evening
Now the four characters have dinner. Sitting on all four sides of the table.
Location 14- Interior Appartment- Evening
Two characters sit on the couch and talk. The stand up and share
a very passionate kiss. As they kiss they are holding each other
and working towards the bedroom down the end of a hall
Location 14- Bedroom - Evening
The two are laying in bed talking.
Location 14-Bedroom- Morning
One character awkens alone. He goes into the kitchen
pours some cereal.
Location 20- Police station Entrance
One character is being released from jail. Another character
awaits. The only shot shown is the waiting in the front entrance.
Car location- Day time
Inside the car two characters drive and talk
Location 21- Church- Day time
Two characters attend church together they sit at the back.
Location 22- Flower Shop Day Time
Two characters enter the flower shop and talk to the manager.
Location 23- Exterior Parkaid- Day
The main character is walking along outside . It is a happy scene
until he is shot.
Location 24-Hospital bedroom- Day
A character is waiting beside his bed as he is unconcious.
Another character arrives to relieve her of watching over him.
Location 24-Hospital bedroom-Evening
All of the lights are off. The friend reads to the unconcious
character under the low light of a lamp.it is dark outside the radius
of the lamp light. Black.
Location 25- Shrink Office- Day
One of the characters is talking to a shrink. It is day time.
Location 26- Police station jail cell- Evening
a jail cell holding two prisoners as they converse



Location Four Blue Print

Location Four Pictures

The TV Is going to be against this wall

 

[skywalks]

Location Six Exterior

Location Six Blue Print Interior

Photo Interior Location 7

Location 12 Interior Blue Print

General Photo Resteraunt Location 13

Location 14 Interior Blue Print

 

[skywalks]

Photo Interior 17

Blue Print Interior Location 19

Interior photo location 22

Photo Location 23 Above View

Ground Level

Photo Interior Location 24

 

[skywalks]

Aye its a bit much. Any help is welcome

 

[skywalks]

 

[Erik Bien]

skywalks,

I think you aren't getting the input you'd hoped for because this is pretty overwhelming: you aren't just asking for a hint on Question Number Three, you're asking everyone else to take the midterm and the final on your behalf and write the term paper for you too! You'd probably have better luck if you could explain your artistic vision for the lighting in a nutshell and ask fewer, and more specific, questions.

That said, I'll start the ball rolling with my 0.02.

It looks to me as if you will be visiting a lot of locations in a fairly short production schedule. Some of these locations are quite small. Most of these locations look as if they will be somewhat "challenged" in terms of how much house power will be available to you. For all of these reasons, I'd want some 4-foot 4-bank flos (Kinos or equivalent) with both daylight and tungsten globes. Borrow some of the supermarket's tubes from the janitor to lamp them for that scene.

A Chimera or a pancake lantern with a skirt on a pole could help in some of the smaller locations -- or get handfuls of paper chinese lanterns from Michael's (the craft store chain) or Bed Bath & Beyond, wire them up with porcelain sockets, lamp with photoflood globes and strategically spray-paint as necessary for the classic indie equivalent.

Finally, I think you'll also need some sort of hard 5600K source for daylight and moonlight: probably HMI to keep your power needs under control.

That's a very general start. A lot will depend on the mood or tone of the film, what the production designer gives you to work with, how big a crew you have, the specific looks you're after, etc. etc. Hope I've been of some help.

 

[donatello]

find somebody in your local area that has a small lighting/grip package & some experience ... perhaps they'll do it for 3k ? for 3 week ...

seeing how there has been no mention of moods/look then i say photo 17 & 22 are lit ... you might start out with light that is already in the locations ( artificial or natural window light ) and then add to it ?

think SIMPLE ...

 

[skywalks]

find somebody in your local area that has a small lighting/grip package & some experience ... perhaps they'll do it for 3k ? for 3 week ...

seeing how there has been no mention of moods/look then i say photo 17 & 22 are lit ... you might start out with light that is already in the locations ( artificial or natural window light ) and then add to it ?

think SIMPLE ...

To be perfectly frank I dont have money to hire anyone as well I live in a small city where you can't rent lighting equiptment let alone hire someone as there isnt anyone openly advertising their experience.

I must travel out of town to rent lights which means I must rent all the lights for the duration of the shoot, no strategic planning. It will be a small crew of people working for free with little to no experience (the friends and fam type).

I appreciate any advice and do not expect anyone to solve all of my lighting needs, I am a little stressed out over the situation and am anxious to have it all sorted out.

With that said I will ask for advice on what I think will be the most difficult for myself to figure out.

How about

Location 6-interior Pawn shop-Daytime
The main character walks into the main entrance
and sees a beautiful girl at the front counter. I would
like it to be an angelic dream like lighting. He stumbles
around a bit, then i'd like her to laugh at him and the angelic
lighting to disipate to a natural daylight/storelight in the pawn shop


Location 6-Exterior Pawn Shop Evening
The Main character gets out of the back seat. He goes to the door way
where the girl is waiting outside in the pale moonlight.
The talk for a moment. Then they retreat to the warmth of the car.

Location 11- Interior Car-Evening
Now all four of them are in the car on their way to the movie theater


Location 24-Hospital bedroom-Evening
All of the lights are off. The friend reads to the unconcious
character under the low light of a lamp.it is dark outside the radius
of the lamp light. Black.


If this is still to much of a tall order I am sorry, and will have to guess on the shoot. I can't afford to rent lights and practice, thats unfortunate because it seems like the only way to go. All of the rental places in the larger cities around where I live require a deposite for the equiptment you rent equivilant to purchasing the product then they take the rental fee out of the deposit and give you your deposit back. Its unfortunate if you need to rent expensive lighting equiptment and don't have tens of thousands of dollars up front.

 

[Erik Bien]

Aaah, now we're getting somewhere.

Donatello is absolutely right, with a small and inexperienced crew and an ambitious number of setups to cover in very little time and with very little money, the KISS principle is your friend. A crew person holding a reflector or bounce card doesn't draw any electricity. Carefully stage your daylight scenes to take advantage of the sun and use bounce, flags and scrims to sculpt your natural light as much as possible.

If renting is still an option (albeit an inconvenient one), perhaps you could afford to at least rent a small documentary kit, like the Arri Softbank or a Lowel DV Creator -- something that has stands, cords, light heads, globes and diffusers all in one relatively portable case. Or buy one and sell it on eBay after your shoot. Be sure and add reflectors like Flexi-Fills, they will really add to the versatility of a small kit. It's just my opinion, but I think it's pretty hard to fake anything equivalent from the aisles at Home Depot: work light stands don't get tall enough or knock down small enough, etc. You'll still have plenty of opportunity to give Home Depot money for things like extension cords, beadboard, rope, spring clamps, C-47s, etc.

Even if you DON'T rent a package, you will probably have to pay a visit to the lighting/grip supply place for gaffer's tape, gels, photoflood globes, black wrap, etc.

Okay, let's say you've rented a "Lowel DV Creator 44" kit (list is around $1600, so your budget would theoretically cover a deposit).

Everybody has their own way of doing things, but here's what I'd be thinking about for the specific scenes you mentioned.

For the pawn shop interior, day, it looks like your natural light will be daylight and maybe overhead flourescents. If that plus some bounce/flag/diffuse "grip lighting" is enough to shoot the "normal" parts of the scene, go with it. If you need more, slap a CTB gel in front of the 750W Tota and bounce it off something -- wall, floor, ceiling, beadboard -- so it matches the angle of the sunlight.

When you get to her close-up, you probably want to hit her with something soft and frontal to flatter her features: maybe the 250W Rifa will be enough, maybe you'll need something a little punchier like the Omni. I'd be tempted to leave this a little warm, maybe a half-CTB, but let your monitor tell you what your camera likes best.

In comedies, you often see every cliche and convention in the book used at once for a shot like this: huge blasts of unexplained rim lighting making it look as if her hair is on fire, slow motion, diffusion filters, wind, etc. etc. I leave it to your (and the director's) discretion how far you want to go down that road, but I might at least try the little Pro light coming from high and behind her to give her hair a little sheen.

For the pawn shop exterior, night, I'd want to rig a horizontal white silk or bounce board as big as possible and as high as possible: sand-bagged C-stands and ropes on the roof holding a 12x12 would be great. I'd probably try bouncing the Omni with half CTB off it first, but you might need your 750 Tota, or maybe even both, to get enough "moonlight" going on over the playing area. You'll probably need black wrap and flags to block spill, so you're only seeing the light bounced off the butterfly. The Omni or Pro could also pretend to be a streetlamp or light from a nearby building if your moonlight gag doesn't give you enough to work with.

Scour the local home improvement stores for the battery-powered flourescent lights meant to be stuck under kitchen cabinets, and buy them out of AA batteries while you're at it (the ones I bought take 8 EACH!): tape to the doors, headliner, back of the front seat, etc. to light the actors in the car.

For the car interior, night driving scene, these same flos might be enough: just be cautious about letting anyone try to DRIVE and ACT at the same time, especially with lights shining in their face at night! It would probably be safer to tow the picture car -- rent one of those little rigid front-wheel dollies U-Haul has for pulling the family sedan behind their moving vans. Make sure you pick a road without much traffic and with a place wide enough for the process-car/picture-car rig to turn around at both ends and let the police know what you're up to in advance: you might need to pay a couple of off-duty officers to direct traffic for you.

The Pro and the Rifa can both be rigged with 12V lamps and cords so they could be run from the vehicle's lighter socket, but neither is included in the basic DV Creator kit, you'd need to add those to your rental package.

For the hospital room interior, night, if you really want everything beyond the lamp light to go to inky blackness, I'd probably try a photoflood globe in the reading lamp (hopefully production design will find you a metal one with a porcelain socket so you won't melt it), maybe tape some diffusion gel over it and see if that's enough: bouncing off white hospital linens and white book pages and back at the actors' faces, it might be. The little Pro light on a dimmer or the Rifa could be used to cheat the close-ups, especially if you're careful to flag off any spill that would give away the trick.

Don't be surprised if the director or DP decides that they DON'T want absolute stygian darkness everywhere else after all, however: anything more than a brief scene will get pretty monotonous without *some* detail visible in the background. Gel the Omni with CTB and bang it through a cookie onto a wall for little unexplained "sprinkles" of light, shoot the Tota through a window from outside with CTB, maybe break it up with a "branch-a-loris" trimmed from a handy tree.

I hope that gives you somewhere to start. Best of luck with your project!

-- E

 

[skywalks]

Thank you erik, you're advice is greatly appreciated. I will let you know how it all turns out.