Lighting for outdoors?

[dtjohns1]

I've always been told that shooting on a overcast day is ideal when it comes to shooting video. Today was a very cloudy day and I decided to do some test shots and while I can say I loved how it made faces look I was unpleased with how gray and dreary it makes the scene as a whole look. I tried color correcting by pushing the mids and highlights more into the red/orange (even tried blue) spectrum but the end result was my subjects and looking too reddish or things like buildings and cars having a unnatural reddish or blueish tint. Is there anyway to get life back into the scene? Or is it kind of baked in now. Im shooting with a 7d and a neutral color profile btw

 

[j]

You did the right thing. Now it sounds like you are learning the craft of color grading.

Very quick rule of thumb - in order of operation:

Adjust the blacks - bring them down but don't crush.
Adjust the whites - bring them up but don't blow out.
Adjust the gamma (the middle brightness part) bring up or down to taste.
You will probably bounce back and forth tweeking those until they look good. Be sure to keep all the values within the video limits (google waveform monitor)

Now you adjust the color to taste.
Start with saturation. Bring up or down as you see fit.
Go for color correction, I like to swing the mids first the way I want it to go.
Adjust the whites, but not so much. Sometimes it's good to bring the whites back in an opposite direction from the mids.
Adjust the blacks, but be very subtle.
Go back and forth between saturation and the color correction until it looks good.

For a great tutorial:
http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/videos/redgianttv-video.php?id=23

 

[dtjohns1]

I gotcha. I think where I went wrong is I want to get a bright sunshine type of day but with an overcast type of lighting for the faces. This is hard because usually clouds are a deep blue and you see shadows on everything in the background. I think I would be better off shooting in the shade on a sunny day.

 

[craigbowman]

On a lightly overcast day you can still expose in such a way to make it look sunny.

If you get the right time of day a bit of sun on the horizon can still peek through to allow a smidge of colour through.

Earlier same day, which is why this day was picked you can really take advantage of the sky to bring out what the character needed, as reflected in the neutral colour of the actor's wardrobe.

This allows you to really bring out that detail in close shots.

Same kind of detail you might need on a really tight close-up. The spider is setup as a keyframe position in a rack focus which changes from the spider to someone walking through the woods.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

I gotcha. I think where I went wrong is I want to get a bright sunshine type of day but with an overcast type of lighting for the faces. This is hard because usually clouds are a deep blue and you see shadows on everything in the background. I think I would be better off shooting in the shade on a sunny day.

Overheads are used for this on sunny days.

Actress with fold-out reflector middle part used as an overhead:



Without overhead:

 

[Peter Mosiman]

Overheads are used for this on sunny days.

Actress with fold-out reflector middle part used as an overhead:



Without overhead:

Pietro,

While the shot with the overhead looks more pleasing, its flat. I would recommend doing what you did, but next time bring a big black cloth/blanket/duvatine(if you have it) and get some negative fill on her face to add some contrast to it.

Cheers,
Peter Mosiman

 

[dtjohns1]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I've been looking back at some of my favorite movies and noticed that alot of them use the sun as a backlight and i guess use some sort of fill source to help their faces expose properly. :46-:48 and 1:35 are good examples from here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBqmKSAHc6w or this scene from munich http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFX0ZDinZ78 I am a one man crew so I wouldn't be able to hold a reflector and shoot and sometimes I shoot groups of people (4-6). Is there a workaround to get these types of scenarios to work?

 

[Huy Vu]

You don't want to shoot on an overcast day, that's the worst possible time to shoot. The best time to shoot is actually a few hours after sunrise and a few hours before sunset. Stage the shot so that the sun backlight the actor, then there's a variety of ways to fill in their face, such as a reflector/shiny board shot through a silk.

Not really any fancy lighting or equipment used to take this shot. Just simple positioning so that the actors are backlit, then a slight boost of the shadow in post.

 

[dtjohns1]

^^^ This is exactly the look im trying to accomplish. So you're saying you didnt use any fill?

 

[j]

Keep the sun to the back of your subjects and use fill as necessary/desired. When you have to flip around to capture the other side, then you will have to use grip equipment to recreate the same look. (yes it's cheating as the sun doesn't actually move around for each shot, but it looks better on camera) Use a flag or net or silk or butterfly to cut the direct light and use reflectors to bounce in hard light from the back.

 

[Huy Vu]

^^^ This is exactly the look im trying to accomplish. So you're saying you didnt use any fill?

Ideally it should have been. Either a 1.2k HMI through a silk or a bounce board through a silk. However if you don't have the crew or equipment then it's possible to cheat a bit in post.

 

[craigbowman]

I've always been told that shooting on a overcast day is ideal when it comes to shooting video. ...

This is correct, except that saying "overcast" on its own is very limiting in describing things in term of the "kind" of overcast in terms of which clouds are present. Overcast actual refers to a sky completely covered by clouds. Clouds are categorized into three basic layers, know as "etages". In the top etage, clouds are cirroform. So you'll have cirrus, cirrostratus and cirrocumulus. In the middle etage, clouds are altoform. So you'll have terms like altostratus and altocumulus. In the bottom etage, you leave out the altoform or cirroform qualifiers, and its known you're referring to the bottom etage by default. So clouds just become stratus, cumulus, stratocumulus, cumulonimbus, towering cumulus etc. The way light is scattered affecting the colour temperture present is affected by both the angle of the sun and the atmospheric conditions present including the type of cloud and the etage its in.

If the sun is high overhead but is scattering through an overcast sky of cirrostratus its like shooting through nature's overhead silk. This is what the original reference to shooting video on an overcast day was based on. However, for your average person off the street, overcast sky to them means a dull grey condition often accompanied by precipitation. The overcast associated with cloud cover formed from clouds in the bottom etage is what Huy was referring to. That's the flattest and for most scenarios, the least dramatic or interesting kind of natural lighting. Just putting the sun behind the subject can still produce flat lighting on the face itself:

Moving everything so the sun isn't directly behind can bring a bit more facial dimension even if you're compressing space with longer focal lengths.

The sunrise/sunset times referred to by Huy are known as golden hour. Under near cloudless conditions the sun filters through more atmosphere.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Pietro,

While the shot with the overhead looks more pleasing, its flat. I would recommend doing what you did, but next time bring a big black cloth/blanket/duvatine(if you have it) and get some negative fill on her face to add some contrast to it.

Cheers,
Peter Mosiman

I need a great gaffer like you!

The flatness that you observe is indeed the thing that bothers me about that shot. I was theorizing on what I could do (if I had more budget, crew, preparation) and all I could think of was a HMI backlight as an accent light.

I didn't know it was so easy to get negative fill in broad daylight like this. Thanks for the knowledge.

 

[stuckfootage]

Fun thread. I've learned some stuff.

I've always been told that shooting on a overcast day is ideal

One good thing about shooting on a really even overcast day:
you are leaving yourself more options if you might be compositing with unknown elements later.
In other words, you're not committing to particular key and fill angles.

Of course, a shot like Huy Vu's is not intended for compositing,
so the full drama of sharp light can play out beautifully.

 

[Tvdie23]

Pietro,
Outdoor: HMI + Power + Crew = that is alot of money. If budget not allow, maybe you want to try that overhead and a mirror reflector board (or B-Board) for back light.
Of course HMI will definitely give you more control.