Lighting faces

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DoubleIt

Well-known member
I am going to post some grabs later tonight but i wanted to make this post now....

I just got back from my first shoot on my short film, Lucid. It went real well and im pretty happy with it, but ive figured out my big problem with lighting. I dont light the people, in particular their faces. I setup the lights to give the room light, and then the people just blend in with the walls. What I need to do , i think, is setup a light for the room, then setup the lighting on the people? I think posting some screen grabs will help and ill do that soon.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here, without seeing your screen grabs, but are you using a rim light behind your subjects? I don't do a whole lot of dramatic shooting, more docu work, but I always use a rim light to really throw some seperation between the subject and the background. How intense are your lights? If you have too much light, you might be washing the shadows out of everything. I always use a bunch of diffusion gels to tone things down.

I'll comment more when I see you screen grabs.

Justin
www.beyondtimemedia.com
 
Im not using a rim or anything on the subjects. My lighting kit has 2 omnis and 2 totas and they are so damn bright. I know I need to difuse them but i dont understand how to make it bright enough to do something and stand out from the lights for the background but not so bright that its, well, too bright! I just finished capturing everything and will post a screen shot in a second.
 
Lucid.gif

Lucid2.gif

Lucid3.gif

Lucid4.gif

Lucid5.gif
 
All of those shots are really interlaced looking, but they are all on a dolly so the grabs just dont look very good, but i think you ge the idea... and thats the other problem, with so many dolly shots im just not sure how to light for the people (So that they are light and the lights not in the shot and the dolly not casting a shadow)
 
Are they all meant to be red?

I'm no lighting guy, but the ones with the screen have far to much contrast - the bright are too bright, and the darks are too dark. I've never tried it, but you could get some ND gels to bring them down a couple of stops or try lowering the brightness of the monitor - then you would have an easier time of exposing the frame.

Aaron
 
Aza said:
Are they all meant to be red?

I'm no lighting guy, but the ones with the screen have far to much contrast - the bright are too bright, and the darks are too dark. I've never tried it, but you could get some ND gels to bring them down a couple of stops or try lowering the brightness of the monitor - then you would have an easier time of exposing the frame.

Aaron
Click to expand...

Yah i wish i would have geled the computer screens. Ill look into some ND gels.
Also ive uplodaded the first 58 seconds from this shoot, its at

www.doubleitproductions.com/lucid/ave.m1v
 
Double;
The question I always ask myself is, How is the action going to take place? Is the action moving in a line or cirlce. Or, is it stationary? What is my focus? Example, a person standing moving ect. After these questions, I set up fill and backlight to edge the object or subject.

Fill Light=color seperation
Edge light=seperation from background

Tahl
 
Read John Jackman's book: Lighting for Digital Video and Television.

One of the things that I've learned is to use as little light as possible. I'll use a 500 if I need it, but I use Fluoros, China Lanterns and Christmas lights. Video doesn't demand nearly the amount of light as Film.

But I agree with the advice you've been given. Ialways use a rim light (also called a hair light). And lighting the background separately can also be a good idea.
 
Im not sure how EVERYBODY does it but if u ask me,...

1. Yes, U have to light ppl diffeently then ur background

2. I always try to light the ppl FIRST, then focus on what around everything needs work. Many time you'll want set lights to also light ur subjects, but you will almost always have additional lights just for the actors.

Ofcoarse its too hard to tell you all I want to right now, but just remember a real basic rule, especially the moodier you get (although its true for photography in general) is you want contrast. Flooding the room with red destroyed contrast, everything looked red. You need either additional lights to provide rim or side lighting, or adjust ur red lights so they light the actors more dynamically.

Another thing, just to experiment while ur learning. Whatever aperature ur shooting at, stop it down 3 or 4 or 5 stops. all of ur spots where there is no light will get a lot darker, and if u add light to ur hot spots (whch are now dimmed) u can get something maybe more dramatic.

that isnt always a good idea, but since ur just starting out you should try all thing things.


The best advice anyone here can give is to pay REALLY close attention to the lighting when ur watching movies (look at where its coming from, where the lights are hiding off camera, sharp or soft) and PRACTICE! Everyshoot where you try dramatic lighting, your knowledge will double. Like me that may mean you have 3 or 4 more shoots before u got something you like. But yeah those 2 things are the key to learning to be a good DV DP

:)
 
I think you're starting to understand what an artform lighting is. Light your subjects FIRST. then light the surrounding areas and CONTROL the spill from the lights with barndoors and flags. if you have neither, you can order a product called blackwrap which is a heavy black foil-like product that you can wrap around the lights to control where the light falls. You can go with a basic 3-4 light setup on each subject. Depending on how much separation you want from the background, increase your foreground light levels by 50% above the background levels. I'd also invest in a light meter that reads in footcandles so you can begin learning the ratios for what you need and get an idea of what your camera requires so you don't create noise in the darker areas. Some of the best film examples for lighting are the GodFather series, and Apocalypse Now. There are a number of good books on lighting and it would probably be easier to find one on photographic lighting because it will show how to model a face and control light on a background.
 
You don't need to gel the monitors, just turn the brightness down... remember, nothing needs to look right to your eyes... it's just got to look good to the camera.

I try to stage the action according to what I can do with the lights I have... VJ is right on the money when he says video doesn't need all that much light... especially in smaller rooms. I think it's funny how the mentality in the film/video community has never changed... people just keep snapping up these uberlights and then they can't figure out what the hell to do with 'em. I bought a set of Mole Richardson Tweenie II's with 300 and 650 watt bulbs... even with the 300 watt bulbs those things were hard as hell to control. I sold 'em.

As others suggest try lighting the actors first and then look at the background. If you can boom a chinese lantern over a group that works pretty good. Then you need something to the effect of softboxes for individuals... otherwise you gotta' flag the hell out of a low wattage light. I'm assuming this is a low budget production... if I were you I'd focus on lighting the actors ONLY and let whatever lightspill that hits the background stay there... you don't want it to be obvious that you're using points of light, but if you soften your output and get a pleasing image on the actors the only risk you run is having an "artsy" look to your shot... which may improve the story on accident. That's what I mean by letting my lights determine my approach.
 
i think you should play around with a small light and some foam core (that white poster size stuff at an office supply store that is made out of foam and is usually white or black)

get the white and point the light at the foam and reflect it towards the actor

it works wonderful.

if you have light going where you don't want use the black foamcore and it will stop or reduce the light.

what little i know about light i learned from walter graff and when he works he uses as little as two lights, one on the person and then a small one on the background.

but he uses as much or more devices to redirect the light. he uses little direct light.

matthew
 
I need to pop in here and ask a question: the chinese lanterns you guys mention, are these the same ones you can get at Target for hanging from the ceiling in your room? And if so, how do you support it? I assume it would wrap onto something like a boom pole, but is there a stand or support of some kind that is used to hold it stationery?

And how does someone utilize christmas lights?

Thanks, I guess that was really more than one question.....
 
I hang my china lantern from whatever is handy. Sometimes I clip it to the ceiling, sometimes a boom stand, whatever works. I got mine from Urban Outfitters and Ikea. THey are 18" and I use a 100W bulb.

I generally string christmas lights to raise the ambient light in a confined space. I've seen them used for more artful purposes, but I haven't had such an opportunity.
 
Well,
To start it off Red is the worse light to use with the DVX. The camera already loves red to much. If red is a must use in costumes and set design.

It looks like the scene takes place in a small room, partying, making music...How would think the lighting needs to look. Think about story, Is it day, night, happy, dramatic, and light for that. Look at how the world is lit. Sit in your house at night, look around at how the light hits the wall and faces of people. Think about how you can motivate more light from those sources to hit you actor or background enough so the exposure looks balanced or right for your scene.

Now after you study that. Think about ways to control the light. Find creative ways to subtract portions of the light(barn doors, flags, cardboard, bounce board, tree branches, etc) from your sources to make it just right.
 
MattinSTL said:
remember, nothing needs to look right to your eyes... it's just got to look good to the camera.
Click to expand...

This is not entirely true. I always light for my eye. I trust my artistic eye first, then bring in light meters and the monitors second. If it looks good to my eyes it will look great captured on film. With some tweeking of course.
 
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