Lighting an outdoor night scene?

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Filmkid2003

Well-known member
Hey everyone. I will be shooting a night scene that takes place right outside a pedestrian tunnel. I plan on hanging three shop lights with 300 watt bulbs in each one. The shop lights are the kind that look like a silver bowl with the bulb in the middle. I will be hanging these over the entrance of the tunnel to simulate utility lights or street lights. The scene is in a fairly confined space about 5 x 10 feet. I will be using the following 3200K 1000 watt quartz lights with barn doors for fill:


http://www.tubetape.net/servlet/the-408/QL-1000--dsh--1000/Detail

For background lighting (to light up the inside of the tunnel in the background) I will be using two 500 watt halogen Craftsman work lights similar to these:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...21x00003a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=03414204000P

I will be powering the lights with a 5000 watt generator and yes, I know the generator will be making noise in the background.

Does anyone know what the color temperature is of the Craftsman halogen work lights?

Also, how do I match the color temperature of the 3200K quartz lights with the halogen work lights and the 300 watt incandescent bulbs in the shop lights so everything looks natural? Do I need to use gels or just do manual white balance after all the lights are set up? I can't put gels on the 300 watt shop lights because they'll actuall be in the scene (practicals). Thanks.

By the way, I will be filming the scene with a GH13 and the Lumix 20mm f1.7 pancake lens at 1/50th shutter speed with an ISO ranging from 100 to 400.
 
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hey man you been talkin bout this tunnel/under bridge scene for a few weeks now, when the heck you gonna shoot this puppy? I'm anxious to see the footage. or is this a diff scene now?
 
Hahaha. No, same scene. Originally, I was going to shoot it at the bridge where I'm shooting three different day scenes with the same character. But, the bridge spans over a short dry wash that is owned by a nearby rancher. About 3 weeks ago, a cop came by while we were shooting and asked what we were doing. That's when he told me that the wash is on the rancher's property and that the rancher called the cops thinking we were four wheeling in the wash (my actors and I all drive pick up trucks which were parked on the side of the road). The rancher has problems with people constantly four wheeling through the wash and in fact, we see people doing it all the time while we're there shooting. So, the same cop came by yesterday and I talked to him and he said he went back to the rancher and the rancher is okay with us shooting there. Now, the only thing is, I'm afraid to shoot the night scene there with all the lights, the noise of the generator, and my actors yelling since its an intense scene. I don't want someone calling the cops again and then risk losing the location altogether. So far, I've been very fortunate.

So, I found this really cool pedestrian tunnel that has graffiti on the walls at the entrance and has a nice eerie, grungy look. Plus, there are no houses for miles and even though its next to a road, the road dead ends just up ahead so, there isn't a lot of traffic on the road. So, hopefully, no cops will be showing up. Plus, it will be easier to light up a small tunnel entrance instead of the more open space of the bridge. I won't be using the string lights after all. Which is good because now I can get my $200 back and put it towards a Singh-Ray Vari ND filter! Anyway, that's the situation and I just need some advice from the experts on how to white balance with the three different light sources and whether I should use gels or not. I just got done reading your "Color Temperature 101" post, which was a big help, by the way. I'm also a noob at lighting and this will be my first night scene using actual film lights instead of just using available light sources. After reading the replies to your post, I'm thinking about mixing color temperatures now, instead of putting gel on the halogen work lights. I'm guessing that the incandescent light bulbs and the quartz lights will be about the same color temp so, the halogen work lights will be the only light source with a different color temp.
 
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Filmkid2003 said:
Hahaha. No, same scene. Originally, I was going to shoot it at the bridge where I'm shooting three different day scenes with the same character. But, the bridge spans over a short dry wash that is owned by a nearby rancher. About 3 weeks ago, a cop came by while we were shooting and asked what we were doing. That's when he told me that the wash is on the rancher's property and that the rancher called the cops thinking we were four wheeling in the wash (my actors and I all drive pick up trucks which were parked on the side of the road). The rancher has problems with people constantly four wheeling through the wash and in fact, we see people doing it all the time while we're there shooting. So, the same cop came by yesterday and I talked to him and he said he went back to the rancher and the rancher is okay with us shooting there. Now, the only thing is, I'm afraid to shoot the night scene there with all the lights, the noise of the generator, and my actors yelling since its an intense scene. I don't want someone calling the cops again and then risk losing the location altogether. So far, I've been very fortunate.

So, I found this really cool pedestrian tunnel that has graffiti on the walls at the entrance and has a nice eerie, grungy look. Plus, there are no houses for miles and even though its next to a road, the road dead ends just up ahead so, there isn't a lot of traffic on the road. So, hopefully, no cops will be showing up. Plus, it will be easier to light up a small tunnel entrance instead of the more open space of the bridge. I won't be using the string lights after all. Which is good because now I can get my $200 back and put it towards a Singh-Ray Vari ND filter! Anyway, that's the situation and I just need some advice from the experts on how to white balance with the three different light sources and whether I should use gels or not. I just got done reading your "Color Temperature 101" post, which was a big help, by the way. I'm also a noob at lighting and this will be my first night scene using actual film lights instead of just using available light sources. After reading the replies to your post, I'm thinking about mixing color temperatures now, instead of putting gel on the halogen work lights. I'm guessing that the incandescent light bulbs and the quartz lights will be about the same color temp so, the halogen work lights will be the only light source with a different color temp.
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although like others have said, it's technically ok to mix temperatures but really at least when you're first starting out i think the best way to mix is for depth/separation so what i mean is instead of flooding the same exact spot or character with different lights of different temperatures, use the technique to add depth. for example let's say you are keying your actor with a really warm light, but then way back in the distance to add depth you have a very cool ambient light highlighting the wall of the tunnel. something like this will give a very cool professional effect methinks....just watch that video i posted on that color temperature 101 thread, the one where the kid and his sister walk through the hallway. it's an awesome look how the hall is light very warm then the elevator in the background is separated from that and given depth with a very cool color. it's a very nice effect and i want to use that as well which is what i suggest you try rather than mixing various color temperatures on the same exact spot or same actor which can get messy/sloppy if you're not careful an d experienced
 
p.s. that sucks about the cop/rancher.... have you considered talking to that rancher, go to his house or phone him up and ask him if he's ok with you shooting that one scene and tell him you'll even give him a special thanks credit in the end credits of your film as is the norm for that sort of thing
 
Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too. I plan on lighting up the actors with 2750K incandescent bulbs and 3200K quartz lights and then lighting the tunnel way in the background with the warm halogen lights or I might just somehow hang a single incandescent shop light that will look like another utility light way back in the tunnel. So, I might not mix color temps after all. Yeah, that video you posted was pretty amazing for a Phillips commercial. As far as the rancher... I thought about asking their permission and then just shoot at the bridge but, I think logistically speaking, shooting at the tunnel will be easier. And I think it will give a more sinister/tense feeling to the scene. Anyway, I'll let you know how it turns out. SSo far, you're the only one that has replied to my thread so, looks like no one else is going to help me out. Haha!:crybaby:
 
yeah because i'm reaally interested how it turns out reason being that i'm at the same level as you apparently and am just getting into this whole lighting thing on my own and am very curious how some of this DIY or super cheap workman light stuff works out for real scenes. I too already have a home depot 500w workman light and plan to buy a stand with more lights on it and am really curious to know if they're capable of professionally lighting a night scene in that manner. So you're sort of the test guinea pig hehe...the awesomest thing I've seen in other things for that type of scene (like scary tunnels etc) is if you can add some sort of very cool (cool as in color temp.) light way in the background that is flickering that both gives depth and gives that haunting flicker that sort of forebodes the dark depths of the tunnel but I'm not sure how you would rig something to flicker other than banging the light and breaking it til it happens to flicker or having a grip turning it on and off or pulling the plug in and out or something
 
Had everything set up and ready to go and all I was able to do was film a couple of test shots. Cops said I had to pack it up by 9 pm or I would get fined since I didn't have a permit. Lighting looked good though. So, now I'm just going to film the scene during the day somewhere else and hopefully I won't get shut down this time. I'm going to use the test shot as a dream one of the characters has so, it won't be a total waste.
 
Hey filmkid, I just shot a scene a few days ago, nighttime in an alley, with nothing hanging outside but a 150W tungsten bulb. It looked great on the set, yet I had no lights, at least none that were really powerful enough to gently flood things. I was going for the aforementioned blue cast night, and warm key. I depended on the tungsten light for that to show me direction, and shot a night scene. It was horrendous. Very nicely shot and everything but badly underexposed. (That of course means it wasn't 'well shot' but you know what I mean)

I did something looked down upon, but it worked out wonderfully. I shot day for night. Few things I kept in mind are not to shoot during noon or anything 'clippy' like that. I didn't catch any sky, cause that'll ruin it all, but the trick is to get it so that tungsten light is bright enough to be considered a really subtle key against the end of the day's remaining light.

This worked wonderfully in our case, we had one wide, the rest were fifties and tighter, we were in an alley, and the light wasn't really invading our space, more like flooding it. The directional light was only coming from the warm tungsten. I shot a few takes of each shot, with different color temperatures. Shooting 3200 balanced out the tungsten, really cooling down the rest, that worked off camera, 5600 was very demanding in post, something about 4400 was making whites look white in that scenario, and gave a nice distribution to each channel's saturation.

I dunno if any let alone all of what I said is bogus, but we got to that attempt after trying a ton of things, with our goal in mind, keeping in mind what we had. Given a bunch of lights, I would definitely light up the evening, and straight up color the light with gel on set, but I don't have that time or equipment, I would definitely do this again, as the end result really felt great. I didn't even break ISO 100. I had about an hour before the sun went down.

Hope that helps, give it a go a few hours before you shoot if you can, if you're on set and it's the day, why not? do two shots day for night, and grade on the spot.

Also, if you have sky in your shot, everything I said won't work, but keep it in mind for tight shots where the sky don't show, and use your lit night shots as the reference to color to.

Cheers

T
 
I'll give you kudos, you are filming balls out! I like that.

Now, it appears that you are working in the filmmaking sphere that is frequently called "Guerilla Filmmaking", correct?

Ok, well now you have asked how to light a pedestrian tunnel. It is a very good question to ask how to lit a pedestrian tunnel, for a guerilla film. However, I think that you have missed the point of guerilla filmmaking. It does not really matter what the pedestrian tunnel looks like in you film. What matters is how do your characters look in the pedestrian tunnel you have. What I would suggest is first and foremost setting up a low budget/guerrilla portraiture lighting system that you can set up quickly and move from place to place with little muss and fuss. Once you have that system, where you can go into any scene and light the characters involved, then you can worry about what the environment looks like. What I have set up for guerilla portraiture lighting is a couple of these:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Set up with a scoop clamp light duct taped to the open end. With these lights, with 100 watt CFLs, I have a great almost shadowless soft light that I can use to light almost any portraiture, in almost any scene, and have it look very natural. This DIY soft light can be modified by change bulbs, and achieve almost any look you want. I love these lights and recommend anybody working on the guerilla end to pick up a couple of them and experiment.

Once you have your portraiture lighting down, then everything else will fall into place.
 
Homunculus said:
jesus the pigs came again?
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Hahaha! Yeah. But, these were coppers at the tunnel, not the cop at the bridge. So far, the cop who comes by the bridge every now and then has been pretty cool. He told the rancher we were filming on her property, underneath the county owned bridge, and the rancher told him that it was fine by him. When we shoot the scene this weekend at the bridge, I'm going to have all three actors carpool so there won't be a bunch of cars parked by the side of the road attracting attention. Hopefully everything will go smoothly. I would have much rather shot the scene at night to set the mood of the scene but, I just don't have the money for permits and the loud generator noise would be in the background. At this point, I just want to get this scene shot.

Homunculus, have you shot your night scene yet?
 
no I am just doing tests and such that's the only real scenes I had to shoot for now, but have not done any extensive night tests just yet.

By the way have you considered getting a 'day for night' filter or whatever they're called? something like this

http://photovideo.com.au/-c-321_358.html

or it can also be done in post production on a suite like FCP. You can basically shoot in day light and make it look like night, without the FPN LOL (at least I think ...hehe)
 
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