Lighting a Church Stage

B

bprater

Member
I have a week-long production coming up -- at a community center. I'll primarily be shooting people speaking from the stage (about 15x25).

I'm a little bit lost on how to get a nice big soft lighting on the stage area. Short of a huge Chimera F2, which isn't in the budget -- what would you guys recommend for flooding the area with soft, even lighting for video production. In my research, I've ran into ellipsoidal lighting as a possibility. What do you guys recommend? (I suspect that they would consider permanent fixtures if we could stay in a budget of $2k or less.)

PS: There is no grid above the stage to hang lighting.
 
Is this an event with a live audience? If so, soft lighting will be very intrusive and will probably cause more interference than it is worth. I would get several PAR cans in the back of the hall to hit the stage from different directions, this will be more discrete and will give you the quality of light that is typical for such situations.
 
Moseph said:
Is this an event with a live audience? If so, soft lighting will be very intrusive and will probably cause more interference than it is worth. I would get several PAR cans in the back of the hall to hit the stage from different directions, this will be more discrete and will give you the quality of light that is typical for such situations.
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It is a live audience. About 150 people, in a medium sized room.

Thanks for the feedback on the PAR cans. Even though the lighting might be a bit harder, I think I could get creative with the placement and intensity of the lights.
 
bprater said:
It is a live audience. About 150 people, in a medium sized room.

Thanks for the feedback on the PAR cans. Even though the lighting might be a bit harder, I think I could get creative with the placement and intensity of the lights.
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You can use some opal diffusion with the Par 64s to give a softer look, it will still be pretty directional but it will have a softer look. I've done that myself many times and it looks more pleasing to the eyes.
You can also dim them down a bit and add some 1/2 or 1/4 ctb, the light won't be as hard and it will keep the white color.
 
No to the PARs. Remember that the lower the angle, the more they will shine in the eyes of the people you are trying to light, and non-pros will start to squint, and some may even try to shield their eyes with their hands. Worse, you could be asked to turn them off. Same thing with ellipsoidals (UK Profiles) - their main purpose is to provide hard edges beams that can have shutters inserted to prevent light falling on things you don't want. Blending them with another looks horrible, unless you defocus them, and then of course you'd have been better to use Fresnels, which are the real tool for the job. Soft edged, easily blend able, and controllable. If there is nowhere to hang them from, then a tall stand - like a Manfrotto or similar with a T-bar top will let them be high enough to not shine in the eyes, and not take too much floor space. PAR cans are great lights, but with no gel in them, are dreadful things to have in your eyeliner. I'm old school, so stick with the 45 degrees up, and 45 degrees to each side if I can manage it to light a stage area evenly. With a 25ft stage width, two Fresnels on a tall stand each side would work nicely, and give you evenly lit faces, even if the subject turns left and right.
 
Yeah if you have the budget, I'd go with something more controllable than PARs, Fresnels are great (theatre fresnels, not the more expensive cinema ones) they give nice spill and blending control. Ellipsoidals are also great, but can be more expensive and less powerful (usually 1000w fresnels are cheaper than 575w ellipsoidals). Though you might want to mix them, using the fresnels to create an even atmosphere and using the focusable ellipsoidals to provide hotspots in important places. As Paulears mentions two T-Bars in each side may be enough to provide hanging space for the Fresnell. Though you may want a third stand in a more frontal position to hang some ellipsoidals for frontal hotspot lighting (but this is an extra that you might not need).

Going into the permanent idea. If they really want to consider permanent lighting I wouldn't recommend using stands. They can be a safety issue and not comply with safety standards in your area (for permanent setups that is), due to blocking entry or exit paths(maybe not your case). I would recommend them to look into creating some kind of simple hanging bar system in the sides or back wall of the church (I don't know the geometry of the church). A hanging pipe or truss with good fixing points and other fixing points to hook safety cables for the lights (safety first!), all this designed by licensed professional . This is just if they want to look into permanent and safer setups.
Something like this.
6615-light-bars-pipe-boxbooms.jpg
 
Ellipsoidals, either Shakespears or Source 4s, or Par cans.

Don't light it like you would a camera. Light it theatre style.

You can definetly get area light with any of those lights. Ellipsoidals can be focused or de-focused. Generally you sharpen each lens, point each light so they are evenly distributed across the stage, then pull the focus on the lenses until they all blend evenly together.

Fresnels work well as backlight. In 6 years in theatre now, I've never seen fresnels as front light. Only ellipsoidals can make the correct throw distance efficiently. 575W Source 4s throw much more light at 20-40 ft than a 1kW fresnel.

If you have trouble, try contacting someone that works in theatre, this is stuff they teach in first year, but unless you've done both theatre and film, it might be difficult to do properly.
 
Your 6 years just means you haven't seen them yet. Professional theatre will use pairs (controlled individually or as a pair) of ellipsoidals out front because they frequently need acting areas to be tightly defined, and using the shutters in a defocussed ellipsoidal lets you light across the width with accurate focus. However, these are normally not able to go very wide - maybe 50 degrees ish? So you need quite a few to cover the width. It's quite common to use Fresnels if you have less in quantity, and then use the barn doors to frame the edges at the sides. Hard light from ellipsoidals often has the lighting designer adding diffusion to soften it up a bit, as shadows can be tricky to control. Bigger Fresnels create less shadows - especially when the popular ellipsoidals have quite small front lenses - so even focussed soft, people cast quite defined shadows. Smaller venues may also not have the throw with the 50 degree maximum - and you get a bit more spread with a wide Fresnel. My current theatre show has nothing but ellipsoidals over the audience's head, but these are used for specials - so I can refocus them each show onto the band members or other featured static people. If I need even, soft front lighting, then down they come, and up go a dozen Fresnels, without a thought - big 2Ks, so I can have white and three colours.
 
I believe that I would contact a church theatrical lighting company and have them look at the project. You don't want to go out and buy a bunch of lightiing instruments for a 1-shot deal. They might be able to give you a rental price for temporary use during your project as well as give the Center a price for a perminent, safe installation. Either way you will come out as inexpensively as possible. . . and move on. Good luck.
 
bprater said:
(I suspect that they would consider permanent fixtures if we could stay in a budget of $2k or less.)

PS: There is no grid above the stage to hang lighting.
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You have already gotten many good suggestions on how to light it so I won't add any more noise to that. I will tell you that there is alot more involved with permanently installing lighting than just the fixtures. As an ETC dealer and service technician, I see and perform many installs every year. The cheapest I have ever done a functional and flexible install is around the $10k mark. The backend is where the money is, the dimming system, the architectural controls, and of course the electrical work. Now many places do it on the cheap, they put in American DJ or NSI portable dimmer packs and get away with it for a few years until things die and they have to replace it. The best way is to do it right, this means consult with a theatrical equipment dealer or designer and plan the proper system for the space. Too many times I see salespeople spec a system that is totally overkill or impractical just so they can make a few extra bucks. My point is, a proper permanent lighting system is something that takes time and planning, not something just done on a whim.
 
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Very sensible stuff from Ben - he's totally correct on how much the mechanical and electrical stuff costs. Running DMX everywhere, with patches and splitters, and the mains wiring needs a sensible budget. Very often, hiring in can be more cost effective. Temporary installs also have storage and transport issues. You really need proper cases to keep things safe and sound - Stage lighting is not the easiest shape to stack and store, so flight cases could be sensible as they can stack. With a proper ground plan and side elevation, we could do some suggestions if you like.
 
Dimmers, what a headache...I have been involved in some dimming capable effect generator designs and while on the research phase we found lots of totally crappy cheap products that aren't protected, nor insulated, missing essential protection components, are prone to failure, overheat, have lots of rf problems, noisy and one even flashed and smoked when overloaded (you have to test for overloads, fire hazard is an important factor). Totally follow Ben's advice and if they ever want to go for a permanent installation hire a reputable professional technician.
 
I wish they still made the CD80 dimmer packs. They used to be in every theatre and studio here and now they are starting to be difficult to maintain.
 
You've gotten alot of suggestions here that range from simple and cheap to expensive and complicated. As you mentioned right away that you needed to stay inside of $2K and that will I assume include labor then your first advice - PAR cans was spot on. Everything else including dealing with 2K fresnels (especially the big ones) is just more labor and electricity intensive. PAR cans are cheap, they have a long throw and put out a ton of light for the juice. You can Opal them to make softer and augment with a source 4 Leko if you need it hear and there.
Do get a dimmer board if you can, it will make the whole thing faster and easier to even out - I don't know why some of the posters here have objected to dimmers unless they are talkiing about a full scale complicated permanent installation. A simple board to run the few lights you will be using should be dirt simple. PAR's were made for this kind of gig - its done everyday. The other suggestion to just hire someone who does this kind of job often is also on track. Its just not a big deal for a decent gaffer or theatrical lighting crew.
 
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Andrew Luczenczyn said:
I wish they still made the CD80 dimmer packs. They used to be in every theatre and studio here and now they are starting to be difficult to maintain.
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I know of a company that removed a few CD80 racks from a TV studio in Philly if you happen to be looking for parts.

With that in mind, that is what I REALLY like about ETC. I can still get parts for the early L86 racks that are going strong in a few theaters around here.
 
I really have to disagree with the PAR64 solution. If you have haze in the air, and want nice big hot spots on your key areas or people, they are superb. Todays production had about 60 in the rig - BUT, and it's a huge but - they are totally hopeless at producing even light. It's not what they are for, and worse still, is that if they are in open white or light colours, and low enough to be in the eyeliner (as in less than around 45 degrees upwards) then the people on the stage will squint, and even possibly shield their eyes.

The beam in the air, revealed by the hazer, looks great, but as a source of illumination they are horrible things. No finesse, no controllability - just a bright, oval shaped beam. They are cheap, they are bright - but unless you have a large quantity, it's almost impossible to blend them. On top of this, for video, it means the hotspots will bleach out, and the dark between the beams will be very, very dark Just what video cameras do not like.

If people need even lighting, PAR64s are not the right kit for the job. If you want rock concert lighting, they are.
 
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