Light package various brands recommendations

Run&Gun said:
Yep. If memory serves me, early Arri's were RGB, not RGBW(not sure if they still are or not, I use Gemini's not SkyPanels. The Gemini's have better white light rendition). All of mine are either RGBW or RGBAW/WW, with the exception of the Hives, but they're using five or seven different colors of emitters.
Click to expand...

I actually meant with all RGB lights including RGBW RGBWW.
They explain it in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U-F7EhLp7g

It's best to gel.

Are these just rebranded C-Stands? https://cinelight.com/studio-c-stands/c-stand-330-cm
They look a lot like those from Neewer and Falcon Eyes...
 
M.R. said:
I actually meant with all RGB lights including RGBW RGBWW.
They explain it in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U-F7EhLp7g

It's best to gel.
...
Click to expand...

I saw that last year. I get it, but my practical real world experience with my Gemini’s, Astera’s and Hive’s show me they are fine. And I’m pretty picky. I stuck with tungsten much longer than most, before going full-on into LED’s, because in my opinion nothing beats tungsten or true sunlight for skin-tones and I just wasn’t happy with early LED’s when it really counted. Now, I’m having a hard time remembering the last time I pulled out one of my tungsten instruments to use. I’ve actually completely pulled them all out of my truck. And the last time I pulled out my gel roll to use, was to get a piece of diffusion.

Is putting a sheet of gel over a tungsten light different than an LED or LED array generating that same color? Yes. But putting a sheet of gel over an LED is, too(compared to tungsten/gel). LED’s are getting better and better, but they’re still not full-spectrum, so you can end up with less than desirable results gelling an LED. Lee and I believe Rosco, too, had a line of gels specifically for use with LED’s to account for the shortcomings in their spectrum. Personally I think the benefits of RGBW/RGBAW/RGBWW far outweigh the possible negatives in most general situations. Of course, there can always be specific situations or outlier scenarios where an “RGB” light gives unsatisfactory results, but how many times have we sat there swapping gels out continuously on tungsten lights and still couldn’t get the result we wanted on-camera?

It’s good you have standards and have done research, but do some testing yourself for your real-world situations, because I have seen too many of these types of videos with instruments that I either own or at least have used/seen in-person, and the testers were getting results contrary to my real world results with my cameras. There are just so many variables today that it’s hard to completely rely on someone else’s tests to definitively determine if something will work for you and your (unique) situation.
 
Run&Gun said:
I saw that last year. I get it, but my practical real world experience with my Gemini’s, Astera’s and Hive’s show me they are fine. And I’m pretty picky. I stuck with tungsten much longer than most, before going full-on into LED’s, because in my opinion nothing beats tungsten or true sunlight for skin-tones and I just wasn’t happy with early LED’s when it really counted. Now, I’m having a hard time remembering the last time I pulled out one of my tungsten instruments to use. I’ve actually completely pulled them all out of my truck. And the last time I pulled out my gel roll to use, was to get a piece of diffusion.

Is putting a sheet of gel over a tungsten light different than an LED or LED array generating that same color? Yes. But putting a sheet of gel over an LED is, too(compared to tungsten/gel). LED’s are getting better and better, but they’re still not full-spectrum, so you can end up with less than desirable results gelling an LED. Lee and I believe Rosco, too, had a line of gels specifically for use with LED’s to account for the shortcomings in their spectrum. Personally I think the benefits of RGBW/RGBAW/RGBWW far outweigh the possible negatives in most general situations. Of course, there can always be specific situations or outlier scenarios where an “RGB” light gives unsatisfactory results, but how many times have we sat there swapping gels out continuously on tungsten lights and still couldn’t get the result we wanted on-camera?

It’s good you have standards and have done research, but do some testing yourself for your real-world situations, because I have seen too many of these types of videos with instruments that I either own or at least have used/seen in-person, and the testers were getting results contrary to my real world results with my cameras. There are just so many variables today that it’s hard to completely rely on someone else’s tests to definitively determine if something will work for you and your (unique) situation.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. IMHO, if I am painting/color washing a wall or area behind talent using something like my Luxli Cello, that's the main reason I bought it.
Gelling an Arri 650 with midnight blue gel is such an exercise in wasted energy, you don't have enough horsepower to get a deep, rich saturated color.
With the Luxli, just dial it in and it looks great. Running off an NPF battery on a small, light stand. I haven't touched my gel roll since I bought it a year ago.

I still think I can get better skin tones with tungsten than my cheap LEDs (Brightcasts/Aputures/Luxli). Even the Arri Skypanels veer toward green a lot IMHO.
But I know some of the latest LED technology I have reviewed like the LitePanels Geminis make skin look really nice.
 
puredrifting said:
I completely agree. IMHO, if I am painting/color washing a wall or area behind talent using something like my Luxli Cello, that's the main reason I bought it.
Gelling an Arri 650 with midnight blue gel is such an exercise in wasted energy, you don't have enough horsepower to get a deep, rich saturated color.
With the Luxli, just dial it in and it looks great. Running off an NPF battery on a small, light stand. I haven't touched my gel roll since I bought it a year ago.

I still think I can get better skin tones with tungsten than my cheap LEDs (Brightcasts/Aputures/Luxli). Even the Arri Skypanels veer toward green a lot IMHO.
But I know some of the latest LED technology I have reviewed like the LitePanels Geminis make skin look really nice.
Click to expand...

We're pretty much on the same page. I'm pretty much "painting" with my Astera's and Hive's(mostly Astera's, now). People don't talk about the loss you take with dark/heavy grade gels over a light, but RGBW, etc. heavily mitigates the penalty for using dark colors, like dark blue, now. It's just so damn easy, especially with the Astera's. They have a full selection of Lee and Rosco gels each over both tungsten and daylight. And you can select a color from a "color wheel" or via RGB values and also by CIE 1934 x/y coordinates. And save them as your own custom labeled colors/gels for easy recall. And my Astera's are all internally battery powered(5hrs full power/up to 20hrs dimmed). It doesn't get much easier. It's actually fun to use them. And, of course, they do white light: from as low as ~1600K to 25,000K in custom editing mode and +/- green.

I'm still a dyed-in-the-wool tungsten guy, but I'm "fully LED", now(except HMI's during the day outside). SkyPanels do not look as good as Gemini's. I know that's heresy, but that's what my eyes tell me. And yes, they have a slight green push. I have four Gemini's, two 2x1's and two 1x1's, and I've never had to dial in any +/- green correction. At worst, I may bump the CCT up or down a tick to warm it up or cool it down, depending on what I may need for an individual set-up. They are great looking lights. Not cheap, but you do get a lot for your money.
 
Run&Gun said:
I saw that last year. I get it, but my practical real world experience with my Gemini’s, Astera’s and Hive’s show me they are fine. And I’m pretty picky. I stuck with tungsten much longer than most, before going full-on into LED’s, because in my opinion nothing beats tungsten or true sunlight for skin-tones and I just wasn’t happy with early LED’s when it really counted. Now, I’m having a hard time remembering the last time I pulled out one of my tungsten instruments to use. I’ve actually completely pulled them all out of my truck. And the last time I pulled out my gel roll to use, was to get a piece of diffusion.

Is putting a sheet of gel over a tungsten light different than an LED or LED array generating that same color? Yes. But putting a sheet of gel over an LED is, too(compared to tungsten/gel). LED’s are getting better and better, but they’re still not full-spectrum, so you can end up with less than desirable results gelling an LED. Lee and I believe Rosco, too, had a line of gels specifically for use with LED’s to account for the shortcomings in their spectrum. Personally I think the benefits of RGBW/RGBAW/RGBWW far outweigh the possible negatives in most general situations. Of course, there can always be specific situations or outlier scenarios where an “RGB” light gives unsatisfactory results, but how many times have we sat there swapping gels out continuously on tungsten lights and still couldn’t get the result we wanted on-camera?

It’s good you have standards and have done research, but do some testing yourself for your real-world situations, because I have seen too many of these types of videos with instruments that I either own or at least have used/seen in-person, and the testers were getting results contrary to my real world results with my cameras. There are just so many variables today that it’s hard to completely rely on someone else’s tests to definitively determine if something will work for you and your (unique) situation.
Click to expand...

I must say that are some good arguments.
You got me thinking and made me consider adding an RGBW / RGBWW option to the package, for a background / wall color wash or such.
But most of the time RGB means more €

Right now for the package I'm doubting mostly between Nanlite & Godox. I'm trying to make it allround for various types of shooting including product shots.

Forza 500 or 300 (depending how much budget I can get)
Forza 60
Godox S30
Lupo Smartpanel
Forza FL-20G Fresnel Lens

Godox VL300
Godox FV200 or SL 200W
Godox SL60W x2
Godox S30
Lupo Smartpanel
Forza FL-20G Fresnel (Does anybody know if it fits Godox VL / FV / SL line, I know both are bowens but sometimes there are issues between brands)

Anything you would swap out for an RGBW / RGBWW fixture? Or that you would do differently? I know some of you like Luxli Timpani's and Cello or the Litepanels Gemini's. But I'm not a huge fan of panels. They are very handy of course, and it's not like I would not use them. But panels, and certainly in RGB option are quite expensive for what they offer. A Lupo Action Panel might be something to consider, but still I think a monolight might be more versatile.
 
M.R. said:
I must say that are some good arguments.
You got me thinking and made me consider adding an RGBW / RGBWW option to the package, for a background / wall color wash or such.
But most of the time RGB means more €

Right now for the package I'm doubting mostly between Nanlite & Godox. I'm trying to make it allround for various types of shooting including product shots.

Forza 500 or 300 (depending how much budget I can get)
Forza 60
Godox S30
Lupo Smartpanel
Forza FL-20G Fresnel Lens

Godox VL300
Godox FV200 or SL 200W
Godox SL60W x2
Godox S30
Lupo Smartpanel
Forza FL-20G Fresnel (Does anybody know if it fits Godox VL / FV / SL line, I know both are bowens but sometimes there are issues between brands)

Anything you would swap out for an RGBW / RGBWW fixture? Or that you would do differently? I know some of you like Luxli Timpani's and Cello or the Litepanels Gemini's. But I'm not a huge fan of panels. They are very handy of course, and it's not like I would not use them. But panels, and certainly in RGB option are quite expensive for what they offer. A Lupo Action Panel might be something to consider, but still I think a monolight might be more versatile.
Click to expand...

I think you'll struggle to find a good, cheap, RGB monolight.

What about:
- keep the Forza 500/Lupo smartpanel
- instead of Forza 60/Godox S30 put $$$ towards an RGB option
 
M.R. said:
I must say that are some good arguments.
You got me thinking and made me consider adding an RGBW / RGBWW option to the package, for a background / wall color wash or such.
But most of the time RGB means more €

...

Anything you would swap out for an RGBW / RGBWW fixture? Or that you would do differently? I know some of you like Luxli Timpani's and Cello or the Litepanels Gemini's. But I'm not a huge fan of panels. They are very handy of course, and it's not like I would not use them. But panels, and certainly in RGB option are quite expensive for what they offer. A Lupo Action Panel might be something to consider, but still I think a monolight might be more versatile.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think you're still going to pay a little bit of a premium right now for color.

Not that long ago, I think people were migrating to LED's for several reason, none of which was really quality of light, IMO. They were "cool"- both in temp and technology and they were more power efficient which let some of them run off of batteries, and these things helped make them more convenient, which outweighed the shortcomings of the quality of light, to them. Fast forward to "today" and the quality of light has drastically improved and truly become good/great with a lot/most people not being able to tell the difference on camera and couple that with the "convenience" factors of low power draw, low heat generation for easy handling/packing, battery power(both internal and external) for easy placement, transport and use, bi-color to effortlessly use/mix with almost any ambient light, wireless control and now colors and lighting effects and you have lights that we could have only dreamed about when I started doing this in the 90's.

Even though my Gemini's can do color, I only(or at least have only) use(d) them for white light lighting people. When the Hive 100C's first came out several years ago, they caught my eye and I thought these would be great to "paint" backgrounds with. But initially they were a little lacking. Firmware improved them and added many features. Then I bought a set of 200C's for more punch. But they were still a little fiddly to me. The wireless range was a little short and the power supplies, like so many other LED's, were separate. I hate that. Makes set-up/tear down and placement that much more of a pain. Then I stumbled across Astera and started really looking deep into their lights and system. RGBW and RGBAW, internal batteries and a ROBUST wireless control with an amazing control app. After a few two-three camera shoots last summer where we needed to place lights all around and worry about hiding the fixtures and power cords so they wouldn't show up on-camera I took the plunge on their 8-light AX3 system and it's been a game changer for me. My standard single-cam interview lighting kit now is a "two-pack" of Gemini 1x1's and the literal briefcase of Astera AX3 RGBW lights(each one is about the size of a hockey puck, but a little thicker). And right before all of this happened, I bought four of their big brothers that are RGBAW and 3x the power, for when I need some more punch. If I need to light a more natural looking background, I can dial-in basically any temp of white light from super warm ~1600K to up to super cool 25,000K and when doing stuff with college sports teams, colors have become popular again, so I can just scroll around on the color wheel till I find the color that looks good on-camera, if that's the way we want to go.

Something I did a few weeks ago with all of the down-time, I found a website with the color values for all of the college and professional teams team colors here in the US and I created a set of "gels" for each that I cover on a regular basis. Lord, if only it had been this easy 20 years ago.

Unfortunately, I can't help you with any of the fixtures you're considering, but if you are starting to consider fixtures with color capabilities, maybe rent or borrow one or two and see for yourself if they will work for you.

Here are all of the fixtures I have with RGB/White Light color ability:
https://www.litepanels.com/en/products/gemini-2x1/
https://www.litepanels.com/en/products/gemini-1x1/
https://hivelighting.com/c-series/wasp-100-c/
https://hivelighting.com/c-series/hornet-200-c/
https://astera-led.com/ax3/
https://astera-led.com/ax5/
https://astera-led.com/art7/ (Must have for wireless control and to fully utilize the system)

Obviously you have LOTS of choices today, these just happen to be the ones that I'm using.
 
Skypanels looked really bad on the recent CML tests of LEDs and cameras though they didn't have a Gemini to test. I've had pretty good luck with my intellytechs , which I like a great deal in ge

neral. . Usually don't have to gel them and I'm pretty picky.
 
LennyLevy said:
Skypanels looked really bad on the recent CML tests of LEDs and cameras though they didn't have a Gemini to test. I've had pretty good luck with my intellytechs , which I like a great deal in ge

neral. . Usually don't have to gel them and I'm pretty picky.
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Need to ask some of the gaffers I know it they're running theirs with some minus green dialed-in all the time.

Have you seen or used the Intellytech Mega Litecloth? I've only used mine once, so far, but it impressed me. Just as clean as the 2x2's but MUCH bigger and with power to spare. We had two frosted windows in the background and I think I still only ran it at 10%.

I'm not sure how in the heck you could even gel the Mega, if you needed to... Lol
 
Run&Gun said:
Then I stumbled across Astera and started really looking deep into their lights and system. RGBW and RGBAW, internal batteries and a ROBUST wireless control with an amazing control app. After a few two-three camera shoots last summer where we needed to place lights all around and worry about hiding the fixtures and power cords so they wouldn't show up on-camera I took the plunge on their 8-light AX3 system and it's been a game changer for me. My standard single-cam interview lighting kit now is a "two-pack" of Gemini 1x1's and the literal briefcase of Astera AX3 RGBW lights(each one is about the size of a hockey puck, but a little thicker). And right before all of this happened, I bought four of their big brothers that are RGBAW and 3x the power, for when I need some more punch. If I need to light a more natural looking background, I can dial-in basically any temp of white light from super warm ~1600K to up to super cool 25,000K and when doing stuff with college sports teams, colors have become popular again, so I can just scroll around on the color wheel till I find the color that looks good on-camera, if that's the way we want to go.

Something I did a few weeks ago with all of the down-time, I found a website with the color values for all of the college and professional teams team colors here in the US and I created a set of "gels" for each that I cover on a regular basis. Lord, if only it had been this easy 20 years ago.

Unfortunately, I can't help you with any of the fixtures you're considering, but if you are starting to consider fixtures with color capabilities, maybe rent or borrow one or two and see for yourself if they will work for you.

Here are all of the fixtures I have with RGB/White Light color ability:
https://www.litepanels.com/en/products/gemini-2x1/
https://www.litepanels.com/en/products/gemini-1x1/
https://hivelighting.com/c-series/wasp-100-c/
https://hivelighting.com/c-series/hornet-200-c/
https://astera-led.com/ax3/
https://astera-led.com/ax5/
https://astera-led.com/art7/ (Must have for wireless control and to fully utilize the system)

Obviously you have LOTS of choices today, these just happen to be the ones that I'm using.
Click to expand...


I totally neglected those fixtures from Astera!
I only had their Tube lights in my mind, which in my opinion, like all the other tube lights, are expensive.
But those AX3 look very interesting.

I also totally forgot to say that I probably will diy some tube's and maybe a panel. I could go RGBW /RGBWW there :)
Remembering how much I used kino's back as a student, it got me thinking a panel might come in handy for tight locations.
As said above I might diy one, but does anybody have any experience with the Nanlite Compac 200 (or 100)? That 200 panel is really big, great for soft light.

rob norton said:
I think you'll struggle to find a good, cheap, RGB monolight.

What about:
- keep the Forza 500/Lupo smartpanel
- instead of Forza 60/Godox S30 put $$$ towards an RGB option
Click to expand...

Here there is a different promotion instead of a lower price on the Forza 500, you get a Forza 60 and FL-20G for 'free'.
 
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M.R. said:
I totally neglected those fixtures from Astera!
I only had their Tube lights in my mind, which in my opinion, like all the other tube lights, are expensive.
But those AX3 look very interesting.

I also totally forgot I probably diy some tube's and maybe a panel. I could go RGBW /RGBWW there :)
Remembering how much I used kino's back as a student, it got me thinking a panel might come in handy for tight locations.
As said above I might diy one, but does anybody have any experience with the Nanlite Compac 200 (or 100)? That 200 panel is really big, great for soft light.



Here there is a different promotion instead of a lower price on the Forza 500, you get a Forza 60 and FL-20G for 'free'.
Click to expand...

Even though you can’t do a direct comparison/equivalency(and it would be kind of irresponsible to), because they are two totally different types of lights(pars vs. fresnels), I use the Astera’s like I would have (generally used) Arri 150/300/650’s in the past. Power/output wise the AX3’s are between a 150 and 300 and the AX5’s between a 300 and 650. And when you factor in “gelling”, especially with darker colors, the Astera’s probably easily pull ahead in output. I don’t remember exactly, but I think I was in the mid(to upper)$3k’s with the eight light kit in the charging case and the ART-7 wireless control box.
 
hello. I am taking my first steps in purchasing lighting for filming. I would like to assemble a universal kit for commercial: vlog, documentaries (interviews), and experiments in low budget: shorts and some experiments with chromakey. My budget is about 1200-1400 for this moment and I would like to purchase at least two sources of light (kit). Earlier I leaned towards the used Kinos diva lite (not Led). Then I read about Intellytech lamps and am considering buying 2 Light Kit Light Cannon X-100 | Bowens Mount + Bi-Color + Fresneel. + diffuser (for using as “Kinoflo” mode). Please tell me your opinion? Thanks.
 
kinema said:
hello. I am taking my first steps in purchasing lighting for filming. I would like to assemble a universal kit for commercial: vlog, documentaries (interviews), and experiments in low budget: shorts and some experiments with chromakey. My budget is about 1200-1400 for this moment and I would like to purchase at least two sources of light (kit). Earlier I leaned towards the used Kinos diva lite (not Led). Then I read about Intellytech lamps and am considering buying 2 Light Kit Light Cannon X-100 | Bowens Mount + Bi-Color + Fresneel. + diffuser (for using as “Kinoflo” mode). Please tell me your opinion? Thanks.
Click to expand...
I started reading through this thread getting ready to reply then I saw how old it was. lol. So after all that advice what happened to the thread starter MR?

Most every different type of job needs different lights. First decide on one type of project that you want to film, then get the basic lights needed for it. For each subsequent job, add additional lights as necessary. As you go along you learn what lights you like. Common place to start 3 or 4 point lighting used for sit down interviews and vlogging.
Typically that's:
1. Key light
2. Fill light or reflector
3. Background light
4. Hair light
5. light stands and accessories.
 
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Peter C. said:
I started reading through this thread getting ready to reply then I saw how old it was. lol. So after all that advice what happened to the thread starter MR?

Most every different type of job needs different lights. First decide on one type of project that you want to film, then get the basic lights needed for it. For each subsequent job, add additional lights as necessary. As you go along you learn what lights you like. Common place to start 3 or 4 point lighting used for sit down interviews and vlogging.
Typically that's:
1. Key light
2. Fill light or reflector
3. Background light
4. Hair light
5. light stands and accessories.
Click to expand...

thanks for answer ) In this case, I will put the question this way, having a budget of 1200 - 1500 usd now, what would you choose: the old used Kinoflo Diva lite (tungsten) or Intellytech specified by me?
In this matter, I am only concerned about the quality of light, color and image that I can get. If there is no difference between the light sources I have indicated, or the difference is minimal, then I think it is better to choose LED? Right? Maybe there is a better solution for the same price instead of Intelytech?
 
kinema said:
thanks for answer ) In this case, I will put the question this way, having a budget of 1200 - 1500 usd now, what would you choose: the old used Kinoflo Diva lite (tungsten) or Intellytech specified by me?
In this matter, I am only concerned about the quality of light, color and image that I can get. If there is no difference between the light sources I have indicated, or the difference is minimal, then I think it is better to choose LED? Right? Maybe there is a better solution for the same price instead of Intelytech?
Click to expand...
Everyone uses LED so take that question off your list. The real issues you'll have to sort through:
1. how bright
2. mono, bi color, or rgb
3. the size/weight
4. the quality of light stands, boom stand...
5. panel or mono lights
6. accessories.

Is this a permanent setup or needs to be put away after, the size of the room... The reality of the situation should dictate the lights not the other way around.
 
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