LIBERTY MUTUAL literally stole Chrismas from me

T

Tom Roper

Veteran
An actual nightmare, have literally ripped me off.

I made an online purchase of a homeowners insurance policy. Completed the transaction online including payment via ACH direct debit for monthly withdrawal $252 /month, 12 month policy term to begin January 17, 2023. After completing the transaction, the online system directed me to create a login and password to view and download my documents but it failed to give me a login, said try again later. After multiple attempts I called the 800 number. The processing agent said the system had cancelled the transaction. She took my information and requoted a higher premium which I reluctantly accepted, gave her my bank routing and account number for ACH withdrawals. I was now able to view policy documents online from my account, but it showed (2) policies, the original I created online earlier and the duplicate created by the processing agent. You can't cancel a policy online, so I called the company again. The processing agent said the 2nd policy would be cancelled and would proceed with the details of the original purchased online. But that cancellation did not happen. I logged in to check status the next day, both policies still there and both shown as "paid in full." I logged into by bank checking account, and sure enough, the full 12 month premium for both policies had been debited from my account, $6,495. This was Friday 12/2/2022.

I called the company again asking for an explanation. They said the policy amount would be refunded after a "review on 12/14" and that I would get my money credited back 3-5 days after that date." Bear in mind, this is for a policy with coverage not even scheduled to begin until Jan 17, more than a month ahead. I requested an immediate refund of the withdrawn amount for the duplicate policy, as well I pointed out that the original policy I purchased online was for monthy debit, not 12 months all at once. Although these agents seemed mildly sympathetic, they indicated there was nothing else they could do. At that point I asked for their supervisor and got a real treat from "Harrison." He accepted no responsibility and victim blamed me saying that "I sound like an intelligent person, therefore I should already know that the problem is the bank, not them." It was impossible to reason with him, he continually interrupted my conversation and said that I am "only talking to hear myself." I was flabbergasted by his remarks and silenced. I didn't say a word after that while he continued his tirade that I was wasting his time, that he had other customers waiting, and that he was going to hang up this call. With not another word from me, that's exactly what he did.

If he was right about one thing, it is that I am an intelligent person who should know better. And my experience with other insurance companies, Farmers, State Farm was that when they owed refunds, a check was in the mailbox almost before I could hang up the phone.
 
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Sorry to hear about the trouble, and it does not surprise me. I won't do business with LM just on the basis of their terrible commercials. Any company that thinks that is a good campaign for selling insurance is too stupid to earn my business. We've been with Amica for decades and have nothing but good things to say about them.
 
Yes, sounds like they need to spend less on their marketing campaigns and more on actually executing their business. Sadly, that seems like an afterthought in many cases. Go ballistic. Tell your bank. Write a letter to the CEO. Contact the BBB. Call again and ask for customer retention or some other area of the stupid call center labyrinth and say you have your lawyer in on the group call. Anything as these stupid big entities only respond to large actions. The fact that the guy hung up on you is great leverage if you get ahold of the right person. Sorry to hear about the troubles and good luck sticking it to them.
 
That’s infuriating. I had a similar “customer service” experience with Verizon a few years ago, although they didn’t owe me, money. I was actually trying to give them money(purchase a new iPhone). I ordered it on-line through their app and then a little while later I received an email that the transaction had been cancelled by Verizon. So I called and the initial CSR would not tell me anything, then when I asked for a supervisor it got even worse, with a similar experience to Tom’s, like I was purposefully being taunted. When I asked if they just didn’t know what the problem was, they said they knew, but would not tell me, except to say that they could not sell me a phone, even though I was the sole account holder. Then when I asked for the supervisors name, he refused to divulge it. I’ve been with Verizon since it was Bell Atlantic Mobile back in the 90’s and I had never experienced anything like that, with them or any other company I’ve ever dealt with. It was like it was an episode of Punk’d, but real.

To this day(prob 4-5 yrs later), I still do not know what the issue was. The account was paid, because it’s on a draft, and the CC I used wasn’t the issue, because I used it to order the same phone through Best Buy a little while later, with zero issues(and they run everything through your cell provider, too).
 
Infuriating is the right word. Boiling the matter down to its essence, is that Liberty Mutual I have learned the hard way is unlike State Farm. Liberty Mutual requires a down payment on new policies. The down payment in this case was that they debited my checking account twice for the full policy premium for the entire 12 month term, original and duplicate, and that thereafter the monthly debit would be for the "renewal." Hard to believe I could be so gullible, or that a very old insurance company would be capable of such deceit. Refunding the $3,488 premium paid for the duplicate requires them to verify that the requested refund was for an amount actually paid, and for this they need 14 days. I discussed this matter with my State Farm agent this morning who said they would issue a policy with no down payment requirement, for a monthly term with first payment due on the closing date January 17th.

It's for a second home on 35 acres in the Royal Gorge region, an area with some purported risk of wildfire. Farmers Insurance had already quoted very high, and that agent said he could not find any other insurers willing or able to accept the risk of that property. Liberty Mutual seemed uncomplicated in that respect, offered a competitive rate but it's possible it too had to go through underwriter's approval, which I speculate as a possible reason for why the whole mess of not being able to login as well the requote took place. But I can't be sure.

My takeaway is the hard lesson of trusting even a very old insurance company with ach debit access to my checking account for automated payments.
 
You can cancel the automated ACH debits on the Liberty Mutual portal, but if I did that now, they would not be able to credit back what they took, but as soon as they do, I'm turning it off if I haven't cancelled the remaining policy before then. I received today an equally competitive quote from State Farm but it needs to be approved by the underwriters before I can purchase that. They visit the site in person to take pictures, but until I close on the property, I won't have access to it, and it's a gated community of (18) 35-40 acre properties. It's always something. The owners wanted me to grant them several days to move out after closing. It sounded like a minor thing but liability wise, it's not minor, so I took the advice and declined the proposal. It nearly killed the deal, seller threw up a big fuss. An older couple afraid if they moved out before the closing date they could be out the expense and trouble if I backed out. I was like, they are not even going to start moving out until they have the money? No way I would accept that. The contract would make them liable for $400 per day but I'd have to sue them to get it. Not worth it. Their agent came up with some masterful wordsmithing to the contract to say that seller closes on one day, buyer closes on the next, Lol. Sale isn't closed and title company doesn't release the escrowed funds until I close it, but it allows them to not have to go back to the closing table after they have moved out, which might have been their objection, I don't know but it has been very tricky with them. They really need to sell because their new home purchase contract is contingent on them selling their current property, but they have been scared about selling their existing beautiful home and property. Anyway, we finally got them to agree on all the terms, but it's never done until it's done. 43 days to go.
 
Sounds like a nice property in a great part of Colorado. And I agree completely with not not letting them hang around after the closing. They have to be out or the deal doesn't close. Period. I've let some sellers leave some stuff behind until they were ready to move it, but thats not the same as them occupying the property when it is not theirs anymore. So many things can go wrong with that scenario.
 
Wow. Just wow. Sorry to hear this Tom. And sounds like you handled it well, all things considered. I'm not a social media person - but I think this type of corporate behavior is the perfect reason to post to social media to let everyone know about Harrison and LM's rather deceitful practices.

If there's one thing I've learned from dealing with bad actors... the squeaky wheel will get the grease. You may get hoarse in the process - and you may spend way too much time trying to find a good apple in the bad bunch....but you might help the next person at least think twice before signing up with jerks.
 
The advertising campaign becomes the face of the company. Liberty Mutual ads are cute and humorous. Their online system is convenient and simple, but behind the curtain are unfair financial practices, arbitrary rules, stubborn administrators and disrespecting behaviors. It is not a company I want to be in a contractural relationship with when taking money from your account that is not rightfully theirs becomes a combative fight to defer refunding it, with the blame aimed at you.
 
The State of California rates Liberty 23rd, leaving 22 better insurance companies to choose from for homeowners insurance. None of the top ten in the listing run national ad campaigns.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Gotta disagree there. The Progressive ads are creative and humorous while still keeping an eye on the product. The Liberty stuff is just flat out dumb.
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That's fair. They do make a point to pay for only what you need. State Farm says, "you don't have to get that personal with us." I learned that point as well when going through a quote where Allstate's online system requires you to divulge driving record, drivers license numbers for you and your spouse, SS #'s, marital details, children, employers, more. I thought it would never end so I gave up before finishing it. Geico was known at one time for these types of personal info intrusions about matters that don't pertain. The ghecko keeps his mother's secret recipe for cookies a secret and floats around in RC boats. They are all pretty stupid really. I like Flo and the Progressive ads, I've had their insurance. Farmers reduces your deductible over time for being claims free and accident forgiveness.
 
And then State Farm, you don't have to be Aaron Rogers or Patrick Mahomes to get the best rate, which could be a swipe at USAA where you have to know somebody to get a rate, be in the military or family member, all of them have some schtick.
 
Let's not forget the duck. If you need quality insurance, talk to the duck. But consider the emu and the gecko both have names, but the duck doesn't. I think that is an important consideration when choosing insurance companies.
 
Paul F said:
Let's not forget the duck. If you need quality insurance, talk to the duck. But consider the emu and the gecko both have names, but the duck doesn't. I think that is an important consideration when choosing insurance companies.
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What about the Geico caveman? I think he was an excellent resource for financial advice.
 
Update:

Day 6 of saga, Liberty Mutual online portal still has not cancelled duplicate policy, nor refunded the unauthorized withdrawal of $3,488 ACH debited from my bank checking account.
 
Have you talked to your bank to see if there is anything that they can do?

It seems like there should be some rules or laws in place to protect the consumer when these situations happen, because we all know that you're not alone, Tom. If the money can be removed from someones account in seconds, then it should be put back in seconds, instead of that process then proceeding like it did in the 1970's*. ~$3,500 is not an insignificant amount of money and for some(a lot) of people that could easily wipe out their account or put them into a really bad place, financially, even after it is straightened out.

*It astonishes me that some on-line electronic banking bill pay systems STILL operate like it's the "old days". When I pay bills on-line with my bank(one of the largest national banks in the country), even though the payment is electronic, it doesn't get paid until the next day(unless it's an internal account). And if it is after 5pm, it won't be paid for two days. And if it's initiated on a Friday, it won't be paid until Monday. And after 5pm on a Friday and it won't be paid until Tuesday. WTF?! In 2022!
 
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