Libec LS 22DV tripod: Head and pan handle issue

S

szimmer

Well-known member
Hello,

I have the Libec LS 22DV tripod. In general, I love it but recently when I put my Panasonic af100 on it, I noticed that it is not so stable. If I shake the pan handle even a little, the head of the tripod is not stable at all. It twists in different directions. Kinda strange and definitely affects video with the slight shakes and vibrations. At first I thought it was due to my af100 setup with my accessories but then I realized it does this even if a camera is not on the tripod.

Anyone else experience the same thing with the libec ls 22dv? Any ideas how to fix this or is it time to upgrade to a more solid tripod?

thanks,

Simon
 
muroshi said:
It's time.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think you are right.

:)

Any recommendations? I have the Panasonic af100 camera with the usual accessories (light, wireless receiver, 7" monitor, audio mixer) with support rods. Weight is around 8-9 pounds.

Need something solid.

thanks,

Simon
 
Nope, but this tripod isn't intended for something like a af100. If you had the money for a af100, Sachtler is recognized for building lifetime-tripods in Europe. Not cheap, but solid stuff.
 
muroshi said:
Nope, but this tripod isn't intended for something like a af100. If you had the money for a af100, Sachtler is recognized for building lifetime-tripods in Europe. Not cheap, but solid stuff.
Click to expand...

Good point. Yes I have heard of them. Great company but pricey. Thanks for your feedback.

Enjoy your Sunday evening!

Simon
 
Simon,

What's your budget?

The Vinten Vision Blue is a great budget "pro" tripod, but it's around US $1100 I think. Sachtler FSB-4 or FSB-6 are good, and the Libec RS-250 and Manfrotto 504HD are worth considering too.

That's basically the cream of the current crop of "lower-end great tripods", but if your budget is lower then there may be alternatives that would suffice, or you could buy used.
 
Mike Beckett said:
Simon,

What's your budget?

The Vinten Vision Blue is a great budget "pro" tripod, but it's around US $1100 I think. Sachtler FSB-4 or FSB-6 are good, and the Libec RS-250 and Manfrotto 504HD are worth considering too.

That's basically the cream of the current crop of "lower-end great tripods", but if your budget is lower then there may be alternatives that would suffice, or you could buy used.
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,

sorry for not mentioning my budget. I realize I would need to spend ~$1000. Ouch but I realize it is worth it. The libec RS-250 would be nice but I always hear how amazing Vinten or Sachtler are. Maybe it is time to get a REAL tripod. Thanks for the advice on which models are good. I will check them out.

As for used, that is an option too. I guess ebay is the best place to check huh?

Good day!

Simon
 
Mike Beckett said:
Ebay, or the classifieds on here or on DVinfo.net, sometimes you get some good gear popping up.

Chris Soucy on DVinfo has reviewed the Libec: http://www.dvinfo.net/article/production/camsupport/review-libec-rs-250m-video-support-system.html
And also reviewed the Vinten Vision Blue: http://www.dvinfo.net/article/production/camsupport/review-vinten-vision-blue.html

Manfrotto and Sachtler reviews are to follow. He's tough, but he knows his tripods!
Click to expand...

Seems like he loves the Vinten Vision Blue! Thanks for all the information.

Simon
 
Hi Mike,

I just wanted to post a video of the issue my tripod is having.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRJj5YuCiwY

I don't remember this being such an issue at the beginning before. Is this normal wobble for a low-budget tripod? As you can imagine, it is very difficult to use my af100 and follow focus with such shakiness. :(

Anyway, so the Vinten Blue seems to be top of the line. The price hurts but quality costs money.

Thanks for your help.

Simon
 
Hmmm... not sure, Simon. I presume you have that locked-off, so it shouldn't tilt? It's hard to tell from the video, but it looks like the legs are flexing too.

Can anyone else advise on this?

I had those legs under my LS-22 and they weren't top of the line, but they didn't flex or bend like that when not under any load. There were Problems when you were trying to pan or tilt ultra-smoothly, and some drift back and wobble when zoomed in, sure. Maybe something has got damaged?

Please remember that there are other tripods that are robust enough and might get you 75% of the Vinten or Sachtler without quite so much of a spend - the Manfrotto 504HD is a capable system, which isn't in the same league, but is around half the price of the Vinten.
 
Hi Mike,

Yes, both directions are locked very tight. And the bottom knob is also very tight. The legs are stable. My wife is barely moving the pan handle. It does a weird twisty motion.

Maybe the tripod head is damaged. :(

I am not saying the legs are great but maybe a better tripod head would be better. Since Libec is for a 75mm bowl, I will look for a better 75mm head like the Vinten. :) I will also check the Monfrotto one.

Thanks for your quick response.

Simon
 
hi simon,

i just saw your youtube video and will say that my ls22 & legs do not do what yours seems to be doing...at least from what i can see on that video.

that Libec was ok for my old DVX100a because it was light. when i got an EX1 it was clearly not robust enough to handle all that extra weight. this will be a problem with your AF100 + accs. i went with a Vinten Vision 3 & Miller Solo VJ carbon fiber legs. the difference between the heads is dramatic but so is the price.

i also have a 503HDV which gives more control than the Libec but is not a very finessed feeling head. kind of "sticky" at times. i really bought it for use on a Kessler Pocket Dolly.

i just ordered a Sachtler fsb-8 & another set of the Solo VJ legs. i have high hopes for the FSB-8. i expect it to be a step up from the Vinten from all that ive read over the years. im not replacing the Vinten setup though just adding another system.

ive played with the 504HD head and even though it is an improvement from the 503HDV i still dont think much of it and left me unimpressed. with all of its knobs you might think that it might be good but its just not in the class of the Vinten or Sachtler. its cheap though, so i cant say your getting ripped off but rather you get what you pay for.

here is an observation i see with the libec & 503hdv compared to my Vinten is in executing "diagonals". start with a simple horizontal pan then start to go upwards or downwards (45 degree angle pan for instance) while still panning. from a dead stop try and go directly into a diagonal pan. its very hard (might i say impossible) to get a clean & seamless transition into that climb on the cheaper heads but its easy and natural on the Vinten. also try doing a circle or an "egg" shape motion with the cheap ones. cant do it but on the better head you can.

when i first got the Libec system i though it was great. ignorance is bliss! i think its and exceptional system for the mere $400. once you touch a quality head though you will never go be able to go back. im also going to order the FSB-6 system in a few more months since i need 3 high quality tripod systems.

beg borrow or steal to get the better system. buy once and never look back. there are people that are using Sachtler's that are 15-20 years old and they still work great.

i love my Solo Vj legs because they go extremely high low. they are also very lightweight & have a strap which is very convienent. Gitzo makes a similar set of legs (goes even higher than the Solo VJ) that are supposed to be nice as well. of course the standard Sachtler legs are probably very nice as well and might be stiffer? im getting those when i get the FSB6 system.

if i was in your situation and you dont have the cash to get an FSB6 or FSB8 head *&* legs? i would just but the "head only" right now and mount it on your Libec legs until you could afford better legs. ive had to put my Vinten Vision 3 head on my Libec legs while my Solo VJ legs were being used with my Pocekt Dolly. the Vinten on the Libec legs is not what you want for long term but IMO it will still smoke any Manfrotto setup. of course the Libec legs wont be as stiff and will wind up with a torqued down head like a Sachtler but its manageable until you can get some killer legs.

good luck!
david
www.davidprobst.com
 
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Thanks David,

Great advice!

I am thinking I can only afford a new tripod head. I was getting excited about the 504HD but then your review was not very flattering. :( hehe!

I will have to do a lot of begging from the wife but what about this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/734617-REG/Vinten_V4092_0001_Vision_Blue_Pan_and.html

This seems to be pretty nice and from Vinten.

A bit more affordable than the FSB6.

thanks again for your feedback.

Simon
 
if i recall...some of the cheaper Vinten's were just rebadged Manfrotto's. years ago i think it was the Vinten Pro6. might not be the case with this "blue" series though. someone on this forum will have the answer though. id definitely research this first.

good luck simon!
david
www.davidprobst.com

EDIT:
here is a very favorable review on the Vision Blue. this guy also used the Vinten Vision 3 as well which is the one i have. he seems happy and he didnt say it was less impressive than the Vision 3 which is quite a compliment to this "blue".
http://www.needcreative.net/main/2011/2/15/vinten-vision-blue-tripod-head-video-review.html

another
http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=252

one big negative about the Vinten is...they dont get as tight/torqued down when going to the higher numbers on the dials as it did when i first got it. a tech at Vinten told me your not supposed to leave the head "stored" in its tight/hi number position when not using it. argh! this is the #1 reason im buying a Sachtler this time around. its still fine but when a heavy load is on it i wish at times i could get it a little stiffer with more resistance. maybe they have improved this on the Blue?

david
 
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Thanks again David. Great information.

At this point, I don't know what I am going to do. I do know - I need a new tripod.

:(
 
szimmer said:
Thanks again David. Great information.

At this point, I don't know what I am going to do. I do know - I need a new tripod.

:(
Click to expand...
from what i seen and read i dont get the impression that the "Blue" Vinten is rebadged manfrotto. it looks like a nice head and the price is pretty good.

you have to read down on this page
http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=166

quote from above article...
"There are many brands on the market today, but in my opinion the leading two are Vinten and Sachtler. In fact Vinten, Sachtler and Manfrotto are all owned by the same company, but this does not mean for one second that a cheap Manfrotto 525/503 is going to be just as good as a Vinten Vision 3, 6, 8 or a Sachtler DV6SB or DV8SB; they are made in different parts of the world including the UK for some Vinten models, Germany for certain Sachtler models and Italy and the far east for the Manfrotto range. So you can see that they are not the same thing at all. Vinten simply re-badge low-end Manfrotto models for their Protouch series as it makes echonomic sense for Vinten to do this. After all, Vinten make professional tripods and have no interest in manufacturing budget models. For the record, the Vinten Pro-6 and Pro-10 are packaged with a genuine set of Vinten tripod legs, but with a re-badged Manfrotto head."

that article is from 2007.

here is a thread i had started 3 years ago when i was looking for my first quality tripod system. the first post on on this page verified about the rebadging by "puredrifting". somewhere on DVXUSER a guy from Vitec/Vinten responsed about the rebadging as well, just cant find it yet. on this thread i had gotten some excellent feedback on my hunt for a quality tripod. you might want to skim thru some of this.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?142087-Tripod-question...HELP!!!/page2

david
 
Don't overlook Miller Tripods.
The DS10 is a fantastic head. Solid and smooth as silk. The only complaints I have are the size of the knob for locking the plate (could be larger) and no illumination on the bubble. Other than that, the fluid motion and stability for the price I paid are wonderful. My previous tripod was a Cartoni Focus. For me, the Miller was a big improvement.
Given that you have an AF100 and potentially a bunch of different lenses, rods, mattebox, etc, which could tip the scale over 10lb.s, the DS20 might be something to look at.
 
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