liability insurance ? (where to buy it?)

[Randall_Oelerich]

Where do you buy liability insurance when making a film, to protect yourself should a crew/cast member be injured during filming? I am contemplating producing a $10k or so no-budget indie horror using my own home as the primary location (plus a public street and a church-turned-into-music-studio, for maybe 5% of the scenes). As an LLC that I have yet to form. So my insurance agent says my homeowners insurance does not cover this, that I would need to buy a commercial/business general liability policy, but he does not sell that sort of policy. The irony is that if I filmed at someone else's home (which I do not want to do, as I prefer to use my home so I splash blood or lay waste to a wall with an ax and such, plus renting another home would mean furnishing it and paying for renting it, both more expensive surely than just buying insurance for my home), their homeowners insurance would cover them if someone was injured from my cast/crew, but my homeowners policy does not cover me either as an individual or as an LLC entity because I and the LLC are in it potentially for profit, as a business use of the home. So wondering where those of you that have made films have purchased general business liability insurance, surely there must be an insurance company or two that does this sort of thing for indie filmmakers?

 

[Paul Hudson]

Hanover.

 

[hscully]

I get liablilty insurance from Hartford through Fractured Atlas. It's a pretty good bargain. Another cool thing is that you can go on their site and get a certificate immediately.

 

[Joe N. Obody]

Hanover.

Nice. And also thank you lscully. I found a Hanover agent right in my town of Duluth MN, just emailed them about this. Would be nice to deal with a local agent. Hoping I can get a policy for a reasonable price. I should probably also contact Hartford just to get a second quote for comparison. Thanks again guys!

 

[Joe N. Obody]

I get liablilty insurance from Hartford through Fractured Atlas. It's a pretty good bargain. Another cool thing is that you can go on their site and get a certificate immediately.

What did that cost you? I just got done meeting with a local Hartford insurance agent who does policies for films/filmmakers and he was verbally telling me $1500-$5000 for coverage involving liability (injuries, etc) and (now going to the higher end of the $ amount) product liability, etc. Sigh. I was hoping to do a $10,000-$15,000 microindie but $2000+ for insurance really starts to eat into that budget. Now if I were to do a micro indie NOT filmed on my home property, I would not need such business liability insurance; might have to reconsider, maybe write up an entirely new story/script that I could film somewhere else. That insurance dollar amount was of course for an annual one year policy, as the agent said they do not issue 3 week or 3 month policy-- however my home/auto insurance agent who I know well said I could probably just cancel such an annual policy once it is no longer needed, so maybe just maybe it becomes affordable if cancelled after filming is done?

 

[Joe N. Obody]

I get liablilty insurance from Hartford through Fractured Atlas. It's a pretty good bargain. Another cool thing is that you can go on their site and get a certificate immediately.

hey their quote for liability looks really good, about $500, what i was hoping for
http://www.fracturedatlas.org/site/liability/Film

Would I even need E&O or lost negative insurance, for a micro budget $15k budget micro indie? I guess I would be screwed if I lost my digital footage, but I could just take extra care in backing it up to negate the need for lost negative insurance? What about E&O-- if I hoped to sell my finished film to recoup the budget, would i need E&O, as E&O insurance is what really seems to cost a LOT, a LOT!

 

[Joe N. Obody]

Related-- for a $10-$15k microbudget indie, would I (the LLC) need product liability insurance, or could I just be extra careful to keep any and all brands and trademarks off any footage (no "Coca Cola", no "Home Depot" signs in the background, etc)?

So if I can do with just a liability policy for any injury to cast/crew, that looks to cost maybe $500/year which is affordable.
http://www.fracturedatlas.org/site/liability/Film

And I am reading here that E&O might not be needed until I finish a film and look to sell it to a distributor?
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/archive/index.php/t-163284.html

 

[hscully]

I have not done a feature yet but I have done a number of shorts and a web series at various locations. Liability insurance on location is very important. In fact we would not have gotten these locations without it. One was a castle in Garrison NY which had been a location in movies before and they were very saavy. Once I was able to tell them that I had liability insurance, no problem. I could go on the Fractured Atlas site and get a certificate in there name. For one short we needed an psychiatrist's office and we had a woman who kindly donated her office to us on one condition... yep, that we had liability insurance and could name the building owner as insured.

If you use Fractured Atlas you have to join. Last time it was $90 a year... I think. So factor that in but they pool insurance and so the really good rate. Plus you can use Fractured Atlas to take tax deductible donations for your film if you create a project with them, and you can link it to Indie Go Go. It's pretty cool. They do lots of art projects and films.

I don't have E&O or anything more than liability at this time. They also offer more like equipment rental insurance. All the best with your film

 

[Joe N. Obody]

I have not done a feature yet but I have done a number of shorts and a web series at various locations. Liability insurance on location is very important. In fact we would not have gotten these locations without it. One was a castle in Garrison NY which had been a location in movies before and they were very saavy. Once I was able to tell them that I had liability insurance, no problem. I could go on the Fractured Atlas site and get a certificate in there name. For one short we needed an psychiatrist's office and we had a woman who kindly donated her office to us on one condition... yep, that we had liability insurance and could name the building owner as insured.

If you use Fractured Atlas you have to join. Last time it was $90 a year... I think. So factor that in but they pool insurance and so the really good rate. Plus you can use Fractured Atlas to take tax deductible donations for your film if you create a project with them, and you can link it to Indie Go Go. It's pretty cool. They do lots of art projects and films.

I don't have E&O or anything more than liability at this time. They also offer more like equipment rental insurance. All the best with your film

Thank you HScully, that helps immensely. I am getting close to pulling the trigger and forming an LLC, the moving ahead with casting, and doing a sheeet load of decluttering of my own house which would be the location for 95% of the film, so I need to clear up space for production design! Just that the insurance thing has been a mystery, cost and all, feel like I am getting a handle on it now-- sounds I can join Fractured Atlas for $100, get liability insurance there for $500/year, and that should help as I also film a few scenes at a local church turned into a private music recording studio (where Bob Dylan went to church, just 2 houses down from his childhood home where he was born and where I will film the opening scene as two characters walk past his house, hah! (production value!), as that 'church' will like that I (my LLC) have liability insurance.

On that note-- I am kind of puzzled why I should even form an LLC? Everything I read says to form an LLC, to shield oneself from liability; but geesh, if the LLC has to buy liability insurance, what is the point of forming an LLC for a film if you still end up buying liability insurance?!?

E&O? Sounds like that is one of the more expensive insurance options, but also sounds like i can wait until i am ready to see if i could sell my film, then have the distributor pay for the E&O.

Lost negative (film)? I think I will just be triple extra careful with data backup; the geek in me is pretty good at that with my personal computing data, I back up every few weeks to external cloud drives and local USB drives. So I would do triple backups of digital sound and video raw footage and edited footage to my own cloud drives and also remote cloud drives, redundant backups.

If I have erred in any of my logic and reasoning in this post, anybody please feel free to slap me one across my head and let me know something I should know, all the school of hard knocks here for me!

 

[hscully]

Generally you join FA for a project but you can join as your company which is an a project of > 1 projects. If you call them, they will help you. They're really great over there.

I incorporated my little concern but I have income to it and hope to do more this year. I think for a single project that the expense of and LLC is a lot but keep asking because I don't really know.

 

[Joe N. Obody]

Generally you join FA for a project but you can join as your company which is an a project of > 1 projects. If you call them, they will help you. They're really great over there.

I incorporated my little concern but I have income to it and hope to do more this year. I think for a single project that the expense of and LLC is a lot but keep asking because I don't really know.

Thanks, I might call FracturedAtlas today.

I am thinking i might re-up on filmspecific.com, look more into LLC or not-- definitely LLC for blueprint film, but for a no-budget indie where I have to buy liability insurance regardless, maybe i do not need LLC, unsure.

For the liability insurance you got at FracturedAtlas, do you recall if your policy required you to NOT use any cars? Not talking about dangerous car chases/stunts, just maybe a scene with actors in a car, or a car in the film driving by actors walking on a sidewalk.

 

[hscully]

I use it for location general liability. It protects the owners where we shoot. I don't know about cars, I wouldn't think so but I don't know. Check with the insurance company or FA.