Let speculate about this industry

V

Victor Nhat Nguyen

Well-known member
There are an influx of people coming into this industry but nobody is retiring. How soon do you think the video/film industry will turn into the photography industry where there are just too many people for someone to make a living?

Also with more people means more projects are being made. However, more projects means that it's going to be harder for your film to get notice. Will audience also get jaded with the amount of materials being made?

also, add any extras you would like to discuss about the industry. I'm really thinking hard of pursuing my dream, but maybe I should try to undestand this industry some more.
 
If by "industry" you mean Hollywood then the employee saturation point was exceeded decades ago. If you move to a major market there will always be dozens, if not hundreds, of people going after each job.

People like options but they don't like to make a choice (if that makes sense). This is why the algorithms Neflix uses to recommned movie and TV shows based on viewing habits is such a big deal. There's just way too much content out there for people to sift through which is one reason why gatekeepers and marketing still have a place in the world of 'new media' and web 2.0.

It's a pretty broad topic but if you have a dream go for it. Trying to learn about the business is certainly a good idea but there will always be a large element of uncertainty and risk that is unavoidable. To many, including myself, that is part of the allure.


-Andrew
 
Thanks for replying, are you making a living just by making movies or do you have a main job? There are just so many people in L.A jeez. I know it's a broad topic but I want it to be broad so people can take this many different directions.
 
it all depends if you want to get here because there is room for easy money (not the case anymore as you stated)
or if you think you are good enough to be among the best (mainly fighting to be at the right place , at the right moment, to do the right thing).
 
nosys70 said:
it all depends if you want to get here because there is room for easy money (not the case anymore as you stated)
or if you think you are good enough to be among the best (mainly fighting to be at the right place , at the right moment, to do the right thing).
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Can you elaborate on "the best". Was there really such thing as easy money in this industry? To survive in this industry nowadays, is it best to be a jack of all trades (master of none), or should you work really hard at one role and try to become the best in that role?
 
In a large market you could specialize more readily than in a smaller one, where it's more advisable to be as good at as many stages and aspects of production and post-production as reasonably possible....I shoot and edit my own stuff for example, as do many people in the NC Triad area.
 
Justin Kuhn said:
In a large market you could specialize more readily than in a smaller one, where it's more advisable to be as good at as many stages and aspects of production and post-production as reasonably possible....I shoot and edit my own stuff for example, as do many people in the NC Triad area.
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so large markets = Hollywood, small markets = indies ?

Do you think that we'll end up getting too many jack of all trades in this industry in the future? If you spend all of our time and energy only on one thing, you might be known for that thing which might be a catalyst for you to get hire.
 
Victor Nhat Nguyen said:
To survive in this industry nowadays, is it best to be a jack of all trades (master of none), or should you work really hard at one role and try to become the best in that role?
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Depends on the size of the market you're in. In a large market, you need to become known for one thing or people assume you're a PA, or just not serious, or worse - not in demand enough to do ONE thing and survive. But to some degree, you need to stand your ground and try to stick to one thing in a smaller market or you'll be stuck getting the lesser work while clients fly "better" people in when they have the budget.
 
Yea, the only reason I even have a business is because when someone calls or emails, I can (most of the time) provide what they ask for and if I can't I probably know someone good who can. But that's having a smaller circle of clients. Chris above is right, in some areas being known to be the GO TO GUY/GAL for X thing is very valuable.
 
Victor Nhat Nguyen said:
Thanks for replying, are you making a living just by making movies or do you have a main job? There are just so many people in L.A jeez. I know it's a broad topic but I want it to be broad so people can take this many different directions.
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I mainly work in docs/unscripted.

As far as jack of all trades vs specialist goes... it really depends on the size of the budget of projects you are going for. If the budget is big enough to employ all specialists you should be a specialist. If the budget is on the small side then you'll need to be a jack of all trades. If the budget is somewhere in between you should be a specialist that also has secondary skill set (knowledge of After Effects is always useful). Even with that being said Alan Bell (editor of Water for Elephants, The Amazing Spider-man, new Hunger Games movie, etc.,) has credited his ability to do VFX with part of his success.

In LA, and other very large markets, you also run into a problem of 'silo-ing' where specialists get broken down by genre. For example, if you edit scripted TV comedies you will have a hard time getting dramatic feature or documentary work. You'd most likely have to do some low/no budget work or start assistant editing in the area you want to expand into in order to build up experience/credibility. Aiming to be 'T-shaped' (having a general knowledge of many disciplines and a very deep knowledge of a specific discipline) is probably a requirement of people entering the biz now.
 
There is only one surefire way to get into the industry in any meaningful manner, and that is of course to have connections.

Talent is of course helpful, but it is by no means a guaranteed ticket to the show. As we all know, digital technology has revolutionized the indie game, and many more short films and low budget features are being made than ever before. But how many of those actually make any money? I would hazard a guess that it's around 1%, probably less. Even with talent you have to have the luck of someone of significance seeing it and liking it.

So really, it actually does all come down to who you know. Whether you know someone from a family connection or from posting a project on the internet and getting lucky enough that someone important liked it, without there being people out there who are willing take a chance on you, you are out in the water.

Now you could argue that crowdfunding is changing this. Perhaps it is, in a very small way. Sure it is now possible to get a project financed without a single major bankroller, but do any of these projects actually turn a profit? I have yet to see a film funded by kickstarter or indiegogo get any kind of national recognition, much less a distribution deal.

I don't say these things to be cynical, I just think that's the way it is. Even getting a simple PA job on a good project is difficult unless you know someone or have good references, or just have dumb luck. I know this as someone that very quickly got my first PA job on a major feature film ($25 million budget, worldwide distribution, famous people, etc.), and I did a good job. I thought for sure I was "made", but that just isn't the case. Sure I have that experience and those references, and that's great, but i'm still competing with ~50+ other people for every single job, and most of them have more experience than me. It's really a war of attrition. I'm starting to think the people that end up with lifelong careers (that don't have them handed to them on a silver platter) are the ones that simply stick around, always ready for an opportunity. Most people give up because the first few years are quite a struggle, even in a booming market like Atlanta.
 
It's a bit like the lottery in that there is a lot of luck involved but the more you play the more chances you have to win. For someone just entering the businesses in a big market I'd say it takes two or three years before you have enough experience and enough contacts (hopefully) to really start gaining traction on the ground floor of your desired discipline. This isn't always the case but I think it's a decent rule of thumb. Many people will get frustrated and move on to a different career and this helps open up doors for people that have found ways to keep their head above water. I feel like there is another round of attrition maybe 10yrs in where people evaluate where they are, how much time/energy they've put into their career and decide if they want to keep pressing forward or change direction.

I think tenacity and always keeping your long term goals in sight (write network dramas, produce an award winning documentary, edit big budget horror movies, etc.,) are key. It's very easy to incrementally be blown off course and realize one day that you spent so much time working for other people to chase their dreams that you totally lost track of yours. Literally every job I've ever taken since I got out of college has been framed in the perspective of "how does this job help me achieve my long term goal?" Some jobs you have to take because you need to pay the bills while others give you great experience in the area you want to go into but you want to always keep that big goal in mind and not let the day to day rat race become a distraction.
 
You say it yourself, the industry is over-saturated. There's always room for unique talent, but talent without contacts and great people skills will languish in obscurity. Ask yourself why this is your dream, and perhaps there's another way to make a living that isn't as risky, that still meets your needs.
 
It's crazy flooded, just goto youtube, everybody and their brother has a 5d and is now a filmmaker, Dp, Director, ect... It's disheartning to me. I'm having the same sort of delima now. I make decent money teaching prouction and doing jobs here and there, But idk if it's worth pursuing anymore. The low cost of equiptment has made it accessable for anyone and everyone to get in. Years ago, it was like anything else, you needed a business loan to get started, And that made it less competative because not everyone could afford to setup shop. 15yrs later- The only thing that keeps us afloat are return customers, it's tough to find new ones, and when you do, they beat you up on price, or throw out silly numbers they could have got from their nephews friend who just bought a t2i. I only hope these fly by night production companies that have flooded the internet are short lived. Although it seems for everyone that disapears five new crop up. sigh:(
 
maranfilms said:
It's crazy flooded, just goto youtube, everybody and their brother has a 5d and is now a filmmaker, Dp, Director, ect... It's disheartning to me. I'm having the same sort of delima now. I make decent money teaching prouction and doing jobs here and there, But idk if it's worth pursuing anymore. The low cost of equiptment has made it accessable for anyone and everyone to get in. Years ago, it was like anything else, you needed a business loan to get started, And that made it less competative because not everyone could afford to setup shop. 15yrs later- The only thing that keeps us afloat are return customers, it's tough to find new ones, and when you do, they beat you up on price, or throw out silly numbers they could have got from their nephews friend who just bought a t2i. I only hope these fly by night production companies that have flooded the internet are short lived. Although it seems for everyone that disapears five new crop up. sigh:(
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How many people can afford a guitar? Pencil and paper? A hammer? A computer to code on? Are there no longer professional musicians, writers, carpenters or computer programmers? This ball started rolling with Gutenberg in the 1400's and it's not going to stop anytime soon. ;) If you think things are crazy now wait until 3D printers start hitting their stride...

If someone's business model is based around exclusivity of specialty tools then they are doomed to failure because technology will see that 'good enough' versions of said tools become available to the main stream. What does everyone and their brother being able to but up horrible videos on YT have to do with your ability to make quality content? People will gladly pay money for access to content on Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, iTunes, etc., not to mention paying for 'old media' services such as cable and satellite but how many people would pony up cash for YT access if Google suddenly put it behind a pay wall? Cat videos on YT aren't your competition unless your goal is to get rich by making cat videos and uploading them to YT. Are nice steak houses afraid of McDonald's? Is Porsche in trouble because other companies make econo-boxes?

There's an old joke about two competing barber shops across the street from each other. One day the shop on the south side of the street, in an attempt to gain more customers, put a big sign out front reading "For a limited time, $5 haircuts!". Not to be out done the shop across the street put out their own sign, "We fix $5 haircuts!".


-Andrew
 
I think getting discouraged is normal for anyone that has a desire to do more than they currently are. A few months ago I was getting discouraged because even though I have a lot of editing experience I don't have enough 'recognizable' credits to get the gigs that I'm going after. I made the decision to start assistant editing again on a bigger show and bypass editing on a web series because working on the bigger show will get me exposure to people in the field I ultimately want to be in.

Kinda sucky that no one cares about quality movies you've put your heart and soul into but dems da breaks. I'm going to keep pressing forward though 'cause the only other option is to give up and I've already put in too much blood, sweat and tears to do that. Not to mention I don't know how to get a 'normal' job. lol
 
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