LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

Bart_Boge

Bart_Boge

Well-known member
I am operating a wedding videography business. I would like to offer my clients the ability to have their favorite songs included in their projects. At the same time, I want to respect the rights of copyright holders (artists/labels) and avoid any potential trouble w/ the RIAA. Here is my idea:

1) I have the clients provide the copyrighted material to me and affirm that they own the music legally.

2) I use Apple's iTunes to buy my own copies of the songs for my own collection (seeing that I might be archiving the video project, I would legally own the music)

3) For every DVD copy that I make for the couple (for family & friends) I "rebuy" all of the songs from iTunes (but don't keep them on my system).


Legally speaking, everyone has a paid-for copy of the material at every step, so artists & labels are getting paid. The DVDs are for private home use and public display is expressedly forbidden (printed on every DVD in a disclaimer). It would be a ridiculously expensive proposition for a mass-produced project, but for a run of perhaps five total copies, adding $5 per unit to defray the iTunes costs would not be tragic.

If everyone is getting paid, would this insulate me from legal action, or at least the likelihood of legal action?
 
Re: LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

heh... I've never heard of anyone approach the legal use of music that way. From my experience I would say no, since the artist or more correctly the publisher of the music you are using isn't giving you permission to reprint or use their music. Apple has the right to sell their music but not the right to sell the music for commercial use, which is what you are doing.

You might as well save the trouble of purchasing 5 copies of the same song for the 5 copies of the video you will make and just do it illegaly and not have told us about what you were planning to do. Putting the disclaimer or warning will help to keep the owner of the video from displaying it more publicly, which is what will get you in trouble. Although purchasing the amount of copies for the amount of times you will use it seems like an honest and meaningful gesture, legally it is not binding.

Go through the right channels, the publisher of the music, and get the correct clearance if you are unsure of legal and fair use. Otherwise - just do it and don't say I didn't tell you so, kind of thing. you know.
 
Re: LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

Is it illegal?

Probably...

However, if you just do it anyway, chances are nobody's going to come after you. It's not like you are making thousands of copies of songs and selling them. The RIAA has bigger fish to fry than you.

If you're really paranoid about it, talk to an entertainment lawyer.


-Dave
 
Re: LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

Bart, I shoot weddings also as the extra camera. I spoke with a professional DJ at a wedding and that is what he does. The music he loads on to his computer/mixer is copied from disc. He owns the right to us it by purchasing it. I am not a lawyer but it seems you have done what needs to be done properly. All music has been purchased. The owner playing the DVD owns the music. Well, I am nobody but that is my 2 cents worth. Hope to be the main camera soon and will do the same as you.
 
Re: LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

By synchonizing it to a video you are altering the artist product. You are charging for doing thereby negating any fair use clause. Although I like the gesture by purchasing multiple copies you are still violating the copyright by sychronizing it.

You can consult a lawyer but he cant tell you to go ahead and try since there it is not an established ruling. Maybe you could find a lawyer that wants to challenge some copyright laws and the 2 of you can challenge the system. :)

Wedding videographers are caught between rock and hard place. You can secure rights and be legal but it would drive your cost thru the roof making you unable to compete with all the other videographers that skirt the law with impunity (I don't think any wedding videographer has been busted, I heard of one case against a company that synchonized the Rocky theme to their in-house company presenation).

There is a lawyer on this forum, I think he posts in business section. Talk to him for more definitive info.
 
Re: LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

..no its not legal. just because i buy a copy of "crouching tiger hidden dragon" legally. it dosent give me the rights to copy or distribute or use the content in my own productions commercialy or privately. especially if im making profit off it. if you had the CD it probably says right on there that any unauthorized copying or distribution is prohibited. same things true for music or any other copyrighted material. simply buying a copy of a copyrighted work does not give you the rights to the work. you need to either pay to license the useage of the material, or keep it all under the table. chances are greatly in your favor that your not going to get busted for doing it, but i dont personaly condone it.
 
Re: LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

Neil,

I believe you are probably correct, but let me extend your "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" example.

What if you produced exactly five copies of a fun program edited together from "Crouching" clips, which you sold to five people--but you also bought five full copies (@ retail price) of the "Crouching" DVD to give them as well? They would own private viewing rights for the "Crouching" material, including archival rights. Would they not be allowed to edit their archived material as they see fit? Or, pay someone to edit it for them (which is essentially what your edited version would be)?

I don't know what the per unit licensing fee would be, but it would surely be less than the price of buying the entire retail product for each unit sold, wouldn't it? If there is no broadcast of the copyrighted material, no retail distribution of the product (save to my clients and perhaps a handful of other people per project), and everyone down the line is getting paid (artist/label/distributor/retailer, etc.), where is the crime?

Of course, the answer is control--the ability to tell me "no, I don't want MY song on your stinkin' wedding DVD." In that respect, my scheme robs the copyright holder of some measure of control in determining how his/her art will be used. I get it. Still, if I have substanial record-keeping proof that every copyrighted song on every single DVD copy was dutifully purchased, I can't imagine that the RIAA would waste their time with me--especially with the miniscule quantities I would be producing.

IF some goofball Satanist was making anti-Christian DVDs for his friends and was using my Christian band's music as the soundtrack--but was buying copies from iTunes for each copy shipped and putting song/album/label info in the credits--I would probably be ok with it. At least he was paying me for the use of my material and plugging it in the credits.

I welcome more discussion on the issue. Does anyone know if there is some "blanket" permission one could get from ASCAP or BMI (via an annaul fee or something) to use copyrighted material in the fashion I am describing? I would like to do this in perfect compliance with the law if possible.
 
Re: LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

Also,

Synchronization, master, and mechanical rights all come into play here. I hope someone comes up with an easier solution for this mess. From what I have read, to use copyrighted material you must:

Find out the copyright holder's contact info,
Write them a 1 page letter explaining what you intend to use their work for,
Haggle out a separate agreement for every artist and every song.

Yikes.
 
Re: LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

This is an endlessly discuss topic on tons of similar boards. You can discuss ways to make it so you feel like you have done right by the artist/distributor, but you will still be breaking copyright laws.

As to your Croaching Tiger example, you are receiving a profit to alter the artist's original work. You can do it for free (buy the copy of CTHD alter it then give it along with original DVD to friend etc at the original price of DVD). (see link below)

If you own a copy of an artist works, you can alter it to your liking (throw some red paint on the Mona Lisa if it is yours). But you can not profit from altering the orginal content; synchronizing is one form of altering said art.

You want to know how comfortable artists (in this case movie directors) are to having their work altered without their permission...

http://www.viewerfreedom.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=75

Losing control of your art is the same as having someone being able to alter your voice. If you say "I don't hate puppies" and I am allowed to edit out "don't" and then present that as your words, you can sue me for liable. Not exactly analogous to adding pictures to music but close. You might not care for any one particular incident but the protection is important for when you do care.

I don't know if you aware of it but you should join WEVA (www.weva.com). I am told they have resources to easily attain legal permission.
 
Re: LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

Who cares?


If this person does this, is anyone going to go after them? Probably not. People do stuff like this all the time. The fact that he even asked means that he knows it's probably illegal, and that he feels he shouldn't do it anyway.

-Dave
 
Re: LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

[quote author=wabbit link=board=audio;num=1106869054;start=0#8 date=01/28/05 at 14:19:38]

I don't know if you aware of it but you should join WEVA  (www.weva.com).  I am told they have resources to easily attain legal permission.[/quote]

nope. people on those boards have similar discussions. and are heated too. weva members have been debating this for eons, I think. with no real answers and lots of steam.

there are lots of places to buy music, search "production music." though I understand, it is $$expensive$$$

Good luck!
 
Re: LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

Ok, so I checked out this link:

http://www.digitalproducer.com/2004/02_feb/features/02_09/copyright_caveats.htm

It pretty much nails the whole issue down.  I guess I'll be using SoundTrack™ from now on, and I'll be removing all verbage regarding music copyrights from my contracts.  While my idea did solve a few of the issues in a moral sense (i.e., not stealing from the artist), it failed at meeting all ethical and legal requirements.

Seeing that I am an artist and have a deep and abiding respect for intellectual property rights, I have no choice but to stick with royalty-free options for 99% of my projects, and obtain all legally-mandated licenses (sync, mechanical, master) for that 1% of the time when a client DEMANDS a certain song by a certain artist.

Thanks for helping to talk me through this.
 
Re: LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

"I spoke with a professional DJ at a wedding and that is what he does."

I think you are way in front of the DJ. He is playing in public performance.
Down here we have two associations APRA & another I can't remember. One represents the performing artist & the other represents the Publisher. They both want their pound of flesh & are ruthless about it. If you advertise in a telephone directory, chances are DJ's, Dance Studios etc. will get a call!
Perhaps if you belonged to a Videographer's Association they may have a blanket cover which may help you. Just a thought, but if you went down, so would many, many others.
 
Re: LEGAL QUESTION: Copyrighted music material

[quote author=Bart_Boge link=board=audio;num=1106869054;start=0#11 date=01/29/05 at 03:07:25] 

Thanks for helping to talk me through this.[/quote]

Good luck. If is is hard to buy everything at first, then just try and build your library slowly. I gave Soundtrack ( if you are talking about Apple's version?) a try for a very short while until I came to my senses and realized I am no musician--though you may be! creating music that is good enough for clients is another thing..

[quote author=Nirimba link=board=audio;num=1106869054;start=0#12 date=01/29/05 at 20:04:44]
Perhaps if you belonged to a Videographer's Association they may have a blanket cover which may help you. Just a thought, but if you went down, so would many, many others. [/quote]

I haven't heard of one association that can do this. Lovely thought though.
 
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