LEDs vs. flos to shoot two speakers in front of audience

G

GregJ

Active member
I'm going to be shooting an event that will have two speakers (host and guest) seated, in front of an audience of about 100 and I'm torn between using a couple of CoolLights LED 600s (actually the CoolLights LED 600 and a similar no-name LED) and two fluorescent banks, the CoolLights 655PMD (a 6x 55w flo bank) and a similar no-name 6x 55w flo bank.

I prefer the softness of the flos and they're brighter overall, but they're several times larger than the LEDs and bulky -- a real pain to transport.

The LEDs are a breeze to transport -- just two small bags and you don't have to worry about breaking a bulb, but the light is harsher. (I know I wouldn't want to look at it for 90 minutes even in my periphery.) The LEDs need a 1/4 or 1/2 minus green to knock down the green spike but that's not a big deal. (The CL 600LLED comes with minus green acrylic filters.) I tried a softbox on the CL600 but it really cut down on the output.

I haven't shot talking heads in front of an audience before so I'm looking for opinions from the experienced. Or just strong opinions. :happy:

Also, I'd love to use a couple of rim lights on the speakers, which I would normally do in an interview environment, but there aren't usually 100 people behind the camera when I shoot an interview, so I'm concerned about blinding the audience.

Opinions?
 
600 LEDs wont be powerful enough to light two people on a stage effectively (unless you can ask the people to hold the lights in their lap.) LED light falls off too quickly
 
Sorry, I should have painted a clearer picture. It's a large room, but there is no stage. I'll be able to place the lights relatively close to the two speakers, say 15 feet or less.
 
say 15 feet or less.
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id say thats too far for a 600 (even a 1k) LED to be effective. they have about 8'-10' MAX (depending on the existing room light) before losing all noticeable effect. they will hardly have any effect at all at 15'.

we tested a 2k LED this week and it didnt do a whole lot beyond 12'-15' ad at that distance the LED muti-shadow gets pretty noticeable.
 
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Greg,

You already have those units, just try it out for yourself with a test at 15 feet. I just tried an LED 600 at 15 feet and it had plenty of illumination level for my T2i. No multi-shadow problem that I can see either.
 
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Cool Lights said:
Greg,

You already have those units, just try it out for yourself with a test at 15 feet. I just tried an LED 600 at 15 feet and it had plenty of illumination level for my Ti2. No multi-shadow problem that I can see either.
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Hi Richard,

I tried them out and you're right, the LED 600 does give a good deal of illumination at 15 feet. I decided to go with the flos, though (one of which is your CL 655PMD), because the LED is harsher than the flo banks if you happen to look at it directly -- and that will be hard for the speakers to avoid for 90+ minutes. It's plenty soft with the softbox, but that cuts the illumination too much for the distance I'll need.

Thank you very much for taking the time to help answer this question.
 
When I saw the other answer here, I had to jump in. The LED 600 is quite bright and has nothing to do with other similar competing products. Many are even using them for daylight fill.

On the issue of bright lights dazzling people, I think there's some work to be done to teach people how to deal with that. There is a trick to it and it pretty much has to do with keeping any bright lights in your peripheral vision and not looking directly at them. Unless people understand that though, which many actors have discovered and mastered over the years, you can't do much with illuminating them correctly except with the larger fixtures and / or diffusion involved.
 
Cool Lights said:
On the issue of bright lights dazzling people, I think there's some work to be done to teach people how to deal with that. There is a trick to it and it pretty much has to do with keeping any bright lights in your peripheral vision and not looking directly at them. Unless people understand that though, which many actors have discovered and mastered over the years, you can't do much with illuminating them correctly except with the larger fixtures and / or diffusion involved.
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Yes, that's my concern. The subjects are speakers, not actors, and they will be focused on addressing the live audience, and not want to be bothered too much by lights, even in their periphery. My goal is to be relatively unobtrusive while filming, and still make the footage look professional. I think I should stock up on some Rosco #3026 diffusion, though.

BTW, do you think it's taking too big a risk to put in some rim lights? I'm itching to put my CL-LED256 spot in there for separation of the subject and background. Without blinding the front row.
 
GregJ said:
BTW, do you think it's taking too big a risk to put in some rim lights? I'm itching to put my CL-LED256 spot in there for separation of the subject and background. Without blinding the front row.
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Why not? Should work fine as long as you can place them so as not to bother the audience.
 
Often hear the phrase " the LED light falls off too quickly". Can those who believe in that please demonstrate/illustrate how that is possible WITHOUT bending the laws of physics in the nature of light propagation.
Light ( any light, be it candle, light bulb,led, moonlight, sunlight, starlight, big bang light) emanates from a source, travels at around 186,000 miles per second, obeys the inverse square law of increased distance to brightness falloff ( the light intensity diminishes by a factor of 4 for every DOUBLING of distance). The only exception to the rule may be a narrow spot beam, whether a laser , led flashlight, or a HID searchlight that all maintain a high level of brightness at great distances. The difference in light fall-off over distance is relatively small due to the tight, focused beam. If, for example the beam angle of a led flashlight is a super narrow 2 degree spot, then that bright circle of light will be very bright even at 100 feet distance. BUT if that LED flashlight has a 45 degree reflector, then light will fall off AT THE SAME RATE as any studio halogen, flo's, HMI's, that also has a 45 degree spread. If the LED was powerful enough to match the other sources, then the term " the led light falls off too quickly" does not apply. The only way that statement holds true is if the led light, for example, beams out at 45 degrees and compared to a narrow beam spot of another fixture ( both sources being equal in lumen value ). I have seen a led flashlight project a beam at well over 200 feet with only a 5 watt led emitter towards a barn at night. A gazillion watt studio diffused panel will struggle to match that same led intensity at the barn. it's all in the beam angle.
 
If the fixture in question has a really wide beam angle, you are definitely not going to get throw.

Take a fluorescent vs. an LED. Its no contest in terms of throw because the beam angle is so inherently wide on a fluorescent and not much can be done about that due to the nature of the bulbs largeness and surface area emanating light. Last year I ran an LED 1200 and a 4x55 side by side in my office which is about 12 x 20 feet. In terms of lux, the 1200 has more than the 4x55w anyway. But throw is where it really hits home. We sat at one end of the office on a couch and focused both lights on the far wall 20 feet away. The LED won hands down in throw. And that was just a 45 degree beam angle. 25 degree or lower would have been really great. If someone's complaining about throw on an LED unit, they've just got an LED unit that's using too wide of a beam angle, LEDs not capable of much output or underdriven or both--but that doesn't mean all LED units are weak.
 
Cool Lights, im quite happy to be wrong. but is there any chance i could get my hands on an eval unit of your 600 to do some side by side testing with other lights?
 
Working with Non-Actors, Besides telling them about how bright your lights will be, tell them to treat those lights like they do when driving at night, never stare into the lights, keep your eyes on the work: each other, audience, whatever their supposed to be working on.
 
It's like the sun, you know it's there, but you don't have to stare at it. Which reminds me of another misconception about LED lights. I may be a bit off topic, but I'll make it short. " led lights are not hard single shadow types". Well, perhaps some do not read up on the latest high power SINGLE led offerings from several led makers, but put one of them 100 watt class led in a metallic reflector and that myth will disappear faster than roaches in sunlight.
 
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