Led on camera light question.

Norman99

Norman99

Well-known member
Hello everyone, I am new to these forums. I have been doing weddings for over 8 years
and I need a little help in deciding on a light for my camera. I am presently using a Bescor 100 watt DC light powered from a lead acid brick that weighs a ton (at least that what it feels like).I carry 3 of those bricks as each one lasts around 35 minutes before the light starts to turn yellow.I really want to change all that by using the leds. I really need a 100 watt equivalent as those receptions do get quite dark and I average about 15 to 25 feet distance all night. I also have a glass frosted diffuser to get a wider coverage as I use my camera mostly at the widest angle with a .7X wide adapter on it.I have tried a variety of led lights and it seems that none of them are: powerful enough, wide coverage enough, compact enough. Also the ones I tried that approach the power have a plastic hot shoe and are front heavy on the camera or are just too blue. Is there a led light out there that has at least 1800 lumens, neutral white, dimmer, horizontal angle of 100 degrees or more (without a light reducing diffuser), preferably all metal construction, powered from a battery either attached to the light or somewhere on the camera ? Small size like 3 packs of cigarettes. I use a Pana 100b dv camera.
 
Tons of great info available. Try "Search" or "Search this Forum". They are some very powerful tools. It's generally good form to try the search functions first. Try it and you'll most likely find something that fits what you describe.
 
Thanks.Checked out a bunch of them, also went to B&H to see what's on the market.Most of them are not more powerful than a 35 watt bulb and made of plastic and cost a small fortune. The better made ones only shell out roughly between 1200 to 1800 lumens and don't cover wide enough. I mean today we use 16:9 format and when you put the lens on it's widest setting, I really need that light to spread evenly to cover the scene. Why are most of them on the blue side and have hundreds of tiny leds? Those seem powerful but at 15 ft. distances are useless unless the gain is at 12db on the camera. And as we all know, with the gain comes the grain. Perhaps what I am looking for does not exist or have someone custom make one for me. Ideally 1800 to 2400 lumens neutral white with a 110 degree spread and dimmer. Is that too much to ask ?
 
Check out the Comer 1800 from LA Color Shop, I've heard nothing but good things about it. It runs off much smaller batteries than your belt busters, has an even and diffused spread 16x9 spread, and quite a bit of dimmable power (from only 10 led's).
 
Thanks. Looks like a great light. Seems a bit top heavy, big, and too high up from the camera. Is that a plastic shoe ? Also is that 90 degree spread on the specs even and without dark edges? I'll check into that one soon before the season starts. Thanks for a quick reply
 
The LED1800 is one of the better on camera lights, and I have tried the original Sony HVL, PAGc6, LPmicro. Torchled TL30, Sony 10/20, NRG Varalux, Bescor etc. There are better ones out there liek Zylight etc., but they are much more expensive and in a different arena.
Yes the Comer is large, and it will get heavy for your camera with the large Sony 970 battery (so use the 770 instead). Also, I have never been a fan of mounting a light on the front of my camera, as the camera gets too front heavy. Instead I mount them on the camera handle, as it keeps the camera balanced better. If your camera doesn't have a thread for a cold shoe, then purchase a handle bracket and use this, as I do.

Also keep in mind that you are asking about an on camera light and not lighting in general. In many cases on camera lighting is best used as fill only and if you need a light stronger than 35-50 watts, then look into supplemental off camera lighting and/or get a better low light camera.

We currently use Sony FX1 cameras (at 9db), good but not great in low light, and also use the Comer1800 for fill only (about 1/2 intensity) and also a pair of 75w camera lights mounted on light stands placed near the endges of the dance floor for supplemental lighting to give the image a bit more depth. this works well for us. But we are going to upgrading our cameras in the near future to newer Sony cams, with better glass and better low light lux.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you have to keep in mind that on camera lighting, just like on camera audio, isn't the best way to go, unless your a field reporter and it's all you have at your disposal.
 
Last edited:
Hello and thanks for your reply. Most of the weddings I do don't allow for supplemental light stand(s) as I tried in the past with 75W Lowells on tripods and small umbrellas placed at the far corners. They really did nothing drastic to improve on the overall lighting of the dancers I was videotaping but illuminated the background and the lights got in my view most of the time. I also have to deal with the sound DJ guys as they have an ambient atmosphere with colored led lights placed under tables and against the walls that tell me constantly to dim them background lights. These receptions are huge, I mean 300 guests and measure upwards of 10,000 square feet (100X100) or larger. Forget about having the maitre D up the light levels, that never happened. In weddings, you need light and I mean LOTS of it. When I was using twin 200 W (total) bescors mounted on my camera, the reach and quality at 0 DB was phenomenal. I had the power to stop down to F8 or 11 in close situations and get the bride and groom's entrance at 50 feet away WITHOUT any DB gain. Realy that would call for a 3400 lumen or lux LED equivalent. Too bad none exist, but mounting 2 of those 1800 units you mentioned might just do, only problem, size and weight. I do believe a custom built led lamp with the latest technology leds delivering 3 to 4K lumens is a forthcoming reality, but for now I can only choose from what is available. Thanks again
 
While I do agree that video needs light, I don;t agree that a wedding reception needs a ton of light.
And while it's great to be able to shoot at 0db, it's not the end of the world to use camera gain, just use it with shutter speed and iris control smartly.

I shoot a ton of weddings, and some of the receptions are almost candle lit cave dark. But by using supplemental lighting, and I am talking about on camera 75 watt lights, facing the dance floor (no umbrella needed), self powered (battery belts at base), remote controlled (power on/off), along with an on camera light works just fine. The lights do not ruin the mood what so ever, aren't strong enough to overpower a DJ's lights (if used), and I have never had a venue complain once about them. And I am also working in large venues as well that have restrictions.

These are the type of lights I am using, but I built them myself.
http://receptionlight.com/

As I see it, the key is to find the right balance without ruining the mood. A pair of on camera lights to scream, clear the dance floor. And also LED lights are much more intense to look into, due to the fact that they use LEDs in an array to generate the light output. So a pair will be blinding.

Trust me in that I understand your pain when shooting wedding receptions, but don't be afraid of using gain on your camera. While I would be great to shoot at 0db all night long. You can get great looking picture shooting with gain. Just use some extra lightning wisely and don't overdue the gain is all.
 
Last edited:
Grain was never a problem in the past. I would shoot with up tp 12db in the church and all night reception with a 50W light. Those were the days that a tube TV at 4:3 ratio and 32 inch size was the largest a client would have and grain was not all that bad.Today who does not have a 42 or larger HD 1080P 16:9 screen that shows detail like a microscope? I have had to refund portions of the contracted price because of that. The bride would say " Oh, the outside shots look fine but why is the reception fuzzy and grainy?" Try and explain to her that outside is shot at Odb with a ND filter to CUT the light and the reception at wide open aperture at 12db. I mean the receptions here are really dim and sometimes the ONLY illumination is the candles on the tables with the flowers and emergency exit signs. I have lowered shutterspeed to 1/30 th at F1.4 that looks like strobing effect when people are dancing and in motion. I really don't care how bright and blinding the on camera light is to the guests because it is not them that the bride will complain to and not them that will have to be refunding.I tell them it's like the sun, you know it's there but you don't have to stare at it. I shoot at a minimum of 15 feet from the camera and wide angle it at 25 to 40 feet away for those tarantella and hora dance scenes perched up on a chair. Interviews and cake cutting scenes pose no problem as they are taken at less than 10ft.A really bright light is what I need, unless the bride can convince the maitre D to turn up the lights.
 
I'm selling this light but my main business is wedding videography. It's always tricky to shoot in reception. I have tried several video lights before and none of them work well. So far Comer 1800 works well as it gives sufficient output, wide spread, and the 4500K color temp just makes people's skin tone very nice.

I would debate if it's necessary to bring light to the reception. With the comer LED light I setup on-camera, the dance floor becomes a stage and the main focus. You can take a look at this video. Other than the ceremony, we use the light in pre-wedding and in reception. (sorry the High Definition link is not working yet)

http://lacolor.com/video/highlights/?id=AdaJohnny

Now, even my photographer is using the Comer 1800 light for stills. Check out these photos. They were all using the light without using Flash.

http://preview.lacolor.com/vivianraymond/
http://preview.lacolor.com/angelaalan/
 
Last edited:
Part of your low light problem could be that you are still shooting in SD.
I had similar problems with my older PD170 cameras which were great in low light.
By shooting in HDV, I get the luxury of extra color space, which yields greater color saturation and crisper blacks (less grain), compared to working in the SD color space.

Team that up with the fact that I am shooting in native widescreen, and the image will look better on many newer 16:9 HD sets. Also keep in mind that I shoot in HD, edit in HD, but deliver in native 16:9 SD. The overall down-converted image is better in many ways than my original SD images.

But I am convinced that it's the 4:2:0 HDV color space that helps out more in low light.
The overall image might be a tad darker, but it's much cleaner. So team up shooting in HD with supplemental lighting, and I personally am much happier shooting in low light than anything that my SD cameras produced.

Even though I shot with the PD170/VX2000 cameras, which were supposed to be the king of low light shooting, I always used lighting, as like you I was never happy with a dull grainy image.
But I will say that even though, my FX1's aren't nearly as low light sensitive as my PD170's were, the overall image is much better.
After I upgrade my cameras to the newer Sony models, I won't have any complaints about shooting in low light, what so ever.
 
the light of the future is the zylights , smallest coolest ,on camara set up ever. this led dimable powerful little unit lets you set the white balance digitally from 1000 to 10,000. a quick 4200 k button and a 5200k button. then the color of the light can be dialed to put out any color in the rainbow. and if that isn,t cool enough when you have more than one you can control them with remote control. they run off all most any 12 source. I had 2 and was impresssed. there are about $1000 each and the size of a juice box.
 
The Zylight, do you mean the zylight90 ? I hear a lot of talk about that light. I guess it must be a very powerful and bright light at that price. If I can get some lumen, lux, or fc specs at 3 ft. , perhaps I'll look into that if it is more than 2000 lumens and has a wide 110 degree or more spread. I really got to see what a 1000 dollar light can do for me. Thanks
 
It should be noted (and it would be more appropriate if it was self disclosed by Tacky) that Tacky is the reseller of the Comer light that he often talks about.

I'm certain that the light is a great product, as people have testified on DVXUSER, and Tacky has always had positive comments about him and the items he sells, but it is really customary here that when a person pushes the benefits of a product and they are the seller of the product, they make it known so that their comments have some context.

You may be able to figure this fact out by looking at the avatar and see that it says lacolorshop.com but one might not make a direct connection that this is related to the product. By openly disclosing the fact that the comments are coming from the seller, everybody can make informed decisions. It is just the fair thing to do.

But the light does indeed seem like a good value and Tacky has always been very helpful with advice and sharing his experience.
 
The price with the Zylight is due to a few reasons.
First off it's not your normal LED light, as it's able to be adjusted t any color of the spectrum,a nd can be instantly switched from tungsten 3200k to dayight 5600k instantly. And of course dialed into any color temp you like. The lights are also remote controlled and built like a tank.

If you are looking for 2000 lumens then the Zylight isn't for you. It's around the 1800 lumens output range, and you get this light for different reasons than high light output. As I mentioned earlier it's functionality is phenomenal.

I agree that they are probably the best LED lights on the market, but they are expensive, which is why yo don't hear many hands on experiences with them.

I don't think that you are going to find an LED light with the output that you are going for. LED technology is advancing in leaps and bounds, but it's not to the level that you are expecting that tungsten lighting can provide. LED lights are very economical in that they don't draw a ton of power and stay cool. But unlike Tungsten bulbs which output high lumens with one bulb source, LED bulbs have to be arranged in an array in order to obtain the same throw. And unfortunately the light falls off greater than tungsten lighting.

All in all I love LED lighting, bu it does have it's drawbacks. But works great when you know how to use it and work around it.

BTW, here's the page for the Zylight Z90:
http://www.zylight.com/servlet/Page?template=p_9_z90
 
Last edited:
http://www.zylight.com/servlet/Page?template=c_s_support

Hmm! That Zylight90 according to their photometrics doesn't seem that bright. Certainly not 1800 lumens, more like 571 lux at 1 meter. I agree though that it's functionality is without par, but I do need a high intensity light even though it is limited in the full color spectrum and no remote capability. I usually color correct to a small degree in post. I am sure the Zylight is a perfect light in certain applications, but in weddings..??. I once recall seeing someone in NJ with a led light that he claimed had 2600 lumens neutral white 4500K without any filters or diffusers and it sat on his camera measuring no more than 3" wide and was made of a solid black anodized aluminum block acting as a heatsink.It was powered via a P tap connector to the AB brick on his eng camera. Man, that thing was bright and I remember him saying that the dimmer was not even at full power.Wish I took his number.The technology is here, I know it is possible. I'll just wait and see. Thanks for suggestions.
 
I remember seeing this light posted on the DVinfo forums. There was a videographer over there peddling these lights that a colleague made for him in NJ. Unfortunately they took the post down.

The light did seem to be well built and bright.
But I still have to say that if you are looking into lighting that is that bright, then you seriously should consider using these lights on the edges of the dance floor. The big thing with these style lights is that they are small and unobtrusive, don't require cabled power to run (which is most venues complaints), and can be moved anywhere and even remote controlled.

Once you use this style of lighting I think that you might be pleasantly surprised. This doesn't meant that you can't use an on camera light, it just means that you won't require as strong a light on camera.

Here's an example of using this style of lighting. You'll notice the lights on the edges of the dance floor.

http://vimeo.com/4015930
 
a cheep 1800 lumens in a light focused like a flashlight is the way you might buy a headlight for your car . once you have bought that and found out that the equal coverage of correct color temp light is what you should be judging when picking out a light. most budget shooters just say give me power and that is where the mass market for the cheeper on camera lights .with that said i loved my 2 zylights and used them to travel around the world to make my surf film. but sold them 6 months ago because the out put just was not enough for the indi cinematic type lighting i now need. ya more power. will be getting the small coollights led l600 will give me the power i will need . if i was doing run and gun i would have kept my z90 zylights.
 
Oh no, that light wasn't cheaply made, in fact it had an all metal hot shoe, the entire unit was made of T6061 aluminum frame with metal end plates, I called many videographers in NJ and got a hold of one videographer that purchased one last year.His unit had only 6 leds in it they were the Cree mce's outputting more than 600 lumens each at 110 degree horiz spread. That light according to him had a neutral 4500K rendition. I plan on borrowing the unit and see what it's made of. All he mentioned is that it is custom made in very small quantities with lumen output models from 1000 to 5000 lumens. Once I get a hold of it, I will be in a better position to judge if it truly is what he claims. I'm a bit skeptical though. I will keep you posted.
 
jetaddiction@mac.com said:
...sold them 6 months ago because the out put just was not enough for the indi cinematic type lighting i now need. ya more power. will be getting the small coollights led l600 will give me the power i will need . if i was doing run and gun i would have kept my z90 zylights.
Click to expand...

I agree with your choice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top