Least Expensive Digital Audio Recorder That Can Generate / Jam Sync to LTC Timecode?

[16mmFilm]

Hi everyone.

I'd like to set up a pretty simple sync sound recording system consisting of an iPad (running MovieSlate app) and some variety of digital audio recorder. I'd like to be able to synchronize LTC timecode between MovieSlate and the audio recorder, so I'm curious if someone can answer a few questions...

First, what are some of the least expensive digital audio recorders available that can generate and/or sync to an external LTC source? I'd like to be able to jam sync MovieSlate with the audio recorder. The goal is to not have to tether the slate and audio recorder, so I'd like to be able to jam sync the timecode instead of continuously feeding the LTC audio signal from MovieSlate to the recorder (I don't know that MovieSlate is even capable of generating a continuous LTC audio output).

When a digital audio device is capable of syncing to and recording LTC timecode, does that essentially mean that the device is capable of recording at least 3 tracks? This is assuming 2 channels of audio and 1 timecode track. Along the same lines, are these multitrack audio files not your typical .mp3 or .wav file, simply because of the fact that they have more than 2 audio tracks?

Finally, are most editing programs capable of reading and syncing to an LTC track, or is this typically a feature found only in higher end editing programs?

Thanks!

 

[Steve House]

With modern file-based recording there is no parallel LTC track running alongside the audio track(s). LTC is an attribute of sync recording from the analog and DAT days. With current file-based methods, timecode provides a single positional reference point for the first audio sample which is recorded in the file's metadata. It essentially provides the same sync method does as a manual slate. UNLIKE LTC RECORDED ON A PARALLEL AUDIO TRACK IN THE REEL-TO-REEL ANALOG RECORDING DAYS IT DOES NOT PROVIDE A SPEED REFERENCE. The video camera is the master timecode source, the audio recorder is the slave. One first places the video file on the editing software's timeline. When one then adds the audio files, the software can align the audio file's timestamp with the matching timecode in the video. Or with a smart-slate, wich the iPad app emulates, the slate and recorder are jammed together so their clocks read the same. When you drop the video file into the editor timeline you slide the timeline so it lines up to the numbers visible on the slate in the frame, then drop the audio in to align to the timeline.

If you're looking to timecode to provide a speed reference, both aligning the files at their starts and making sure they don't drift apart over longer takes, you're going to have to look further. To provide a speed reference, you need to slave the audio recorder's sample clock to the same timebase that the camera itself is using via wordclock. That probably means using a genlock capable camera.

For you to jam the recorder to the slate or camera it must have its own TC generator that can run accurately on its own after you have synced it to the salte's clock but the popular low-cost recorders don't have timecode generators. If you do want to go the timecode route you're going to have to look to something in a professional recorder such as the Fostex FR-2 with TC (~ $1900) or Sound Devices 702T (~$2500), just to name two of the least spendy.

BTW, you asked about the file types - don't ever even consider recording your audio with a lossy compression format such as mp3. That's for distribution if anything. Original recording should be captured using either an uncompressed format such as WAV or a loss-less compression format such as FLAC.

 

[Richard Crowley]

There are several aspects involved here, and since we don't know what you are trying to do, it is hard to guess which things are important to you:
1) SLATE - identification and correlation between the video file and the corresponding audio file.
2) MARK - recording a visual and audible cue point to synchronize the audio and video files.
3) SYNC - keeping the video recording and audio recording sample rates locked together (to eliminate drift).
and maybe even
4) CONTROL - causing video and audio recording to start and stop at the same time.

You have started out with your perceived solution (timecode), but you have not explained what is the issue(s) you are trying to resolve here.
Since timecode is rather a high-end concept, combining the concepts of "least expensive" and "timecode" presents an automatic conflict.

If you are trying to do (whatever-undisclosed?) on a budget, LTC may not be the best solution.
Many of us haven't used timecode in years because video and audio recording equipment sample rate stability is so much better in recent generations.
And because it is so easy to align audio and video clips in modern NLE applications.
And additionally because there are now software aids for doing automatic alignment (although it isn't that hard to do manually, IMHO)

 

[Rick R]

I concur with Steve and Richard.
Timecode can't be effectively implemented into a 'budget' system.

 

[Noiz2]

Most of the above is dead on. The exception is including DAT with analog tape. DAT being digital also required word clock to stay in sync.

The cheapest recorder (to answer your question) would be the Tascam HDP2. It can jam sync it's TC generator. Of course you would also need a camera that can jam sync or generate TC and in the end you are only going to get "close" since the devices are going to drift. It might be very "close" so you might be fine with short takes and periodic rejaming.

To lock them all together would require $$$ gear and I don't thin MovieSlate can be slaved to incoming clock so you would probably want to go to a slate that can $$$.

In the end it may not be worth the effort. If you set the camera and recorder time and date to be the same you are going to be able to identify which clips go to which. If you are trying to eliminate manual syncing then it's going to be a lot of work or $$ depending on how tight you need sync. Broadcast goes with TC and generally doesn't mess with fine tuning the sync. Big budget features tweak the sync on clips by hand anyway so you don't buy much.

BTW one of the reasons you might have to manually tweak even with the best $$$$ sync system going is that mics are at different distances from scene to scene. Equipment can add short delays, etc and so even if all the numbers match it may not be tight enough for the big screen.

 

[davefisk]

I'm going to differ a little. I never EVER EVER EVER let the camera be the master timecode generator. I've had to trouble shoot way too many productions doing this that had drift issues or sync issues. I would ALWAYS recommend you have a master timecode generator and jam lockit boxes off of that, and put a lockit box on every piece of equipment that can take timecode in. It is much more reliable.