Lavs

egproductions

egproductions

Veteran
I recently purchased a few DR-10Ls. The kit lav seems ok, i'm wondering if I should be upgrading and if I will hear a notible difference so something in the $100-$200 range.

Also I see that people here seem to be liking the rode digital wireless system. In terms of pure quality, do you think the DR-10Ls are similar to the Rode? I realize the rode has the benefit of being able to monitor.

Thanks!
 
egproductions said:
I recently purchased a few DR-10Ls. The kit lav seems ok, i'm wondering if I should be upgrading and if I will hear a notible difference so something in the $100-$200 range.

Also I see that people here seem to be liking the rode digital wireless system. In terms of pure quality, do you think the DR-10Ls are similar to the Rode? I realize the rode has the benefit of being able to monitor.

Thanks!
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I too have both the Tascam DR-10L and the Rødes, two of them. IMHO, yes, an OscarSoundtech or better lav will sound better than the stock Tascam mic. That said, the stock mic sounds okay, just not great. I bought the DR-10L as a safety backup in case the Rødes are not working in a given environment, I carry the DR-10L in the same pouch I carry the Rødes in. So far, two shoots, the Rødes have been flawless, great, clear sound, no RF hits, no static, or white noise blasts and the battery life is insane, I shot seven hours with the Rødes at a trade show a few weeks ago and at the end, the transmitter and receiver each still showed 60% battery left. I'm done with UHF, I am selling my UHF systems because they have become progressively less and less reliable, I am always running into issues and have to re-scan and it's always under pressure when we are getting behind schedule.

All I have done with the DR-10L is tested it with my own voice, I thought it sounded fine, perhaps a bit bright? I have some spare wired lavs laying around, an Audio Technica AT-899, which is a $300.00 lav, that to me, I have never been impressed with the sound of it. It sounds okay but nothing to write home about and I have a couple of Tram TR50s. I may get one or two of my spare lavs re-wired so I can use them with the Rødes and the DR-10L, I'll report back if I ever do but at the moment, the Rødes and their mics sound fine for my shoots. The DR-10L is of very limited use in professional environments because you cannot monitor the audio so you have no way of knowing if you are getting rubbing, cable noise or other undesirable sounds along with the talents voice, plus then you have to sync in post, which is a PITA. Also, you may occasionally roll camera and think you rolled on the DR-10L only to find later that it wasn't rolling, then you are hosed. Hence, they are last ditch backups for me in case my Rødes aren't working or if I hire a sound mixer and his or her wireless stops working or is having RF hit issues.
 
I have a DR-10L & DR-10CS along with sennheiser g3's. Like others, I use G3's as a primary unless i'm running into RF issues and then quickly switch to the tascams, which I'm very happy with.

As far as lavs go, I have a Sanken COS-11d, Countryman B6, a bunch of rode lavs & pinmics, oscar sound 801s (tram tr50 clones) and the stock Tascam lav. In general, I've been happy with the tascam lav when I've used it. Not a lot of handling noise, long cable, sounds pretty good, not terribly sensitive, though.

I'd say the COS-11d is a slam dunk better mic in sound & sensitivity. The rode sounds better to me, and has the benefit of being more sensitive as well. I have a love/hate relationship with the Rodes, though. Love the value and the swap-able connectors, but I hate the swap-able connectors at the same time since they often give me issues.

I wouldn't consider an 801 much of an upgrade, it sounds different, which can be a good or bad thing depending on the voice. I find them easier to hide under clothing, which is why I have them. The are quite a bit less sensitive then the COS-11d and the rodes, about on par with the tascam stock lav. It probably is a better mic than the stock tascam lav, just not my go-to lav. I haven't used other OST lavs.

I love the countryman b6 for what it is, a tiny lav. I wouldn't take it over a COS-11d or Rode if I could have the mic out in the open, but it's priceless to have in your kit if you have to hide a lav. I think it sounds better good as well and is about a sensitive as the rode.

I'll take a boom over any of them.
 
combatentropy said:
The difference is striking: https://vimeo.com/62502765
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Thank you for your responses. I'm totally with you, I feel that a boomed mic is significantly better in most situations. I have 3 DR-10Ls. After reading your responses, I'm thinking that I will keep the stock lavs with them, however, I think I'm going to purchase a Rode wireless and pair that up with the COS-11d. This will be my go-to lav kit and then I'll use the DR-10Ls when I need additional tracks. So in a sense, the DR-10Ls are the third down the line after a boom mic (416 into a mix-pre D), Rode Link and then DR10Ls.
 
egproductions said:
Thank you for your responses. I'm totally with you, I feel that a boomed mic is significantly better in most situations. I have 3 DR-10Ls. After reading your responses, I'm thinking that I will keep the stock lavs with them, however, I think I'm going to purchase a Rode wireless and pair that up with the COS-11d. This will be my go-to lav kit and then I'll use the DR-10Ls when I need additional tracks. So in a sense, the DR-10Ls are the third down the line after a boom mic (416 into a mix-pre D), Rode Link and then DR10Ls.
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As long as you are on a buying spree, update your shotgun. 416 is meh, IMHO. DPA 4017, Schoeps CMITmini, Sennheiser MKH50 or 60 or 8060, Sanken CS3e, so many better sounding and more interesting shotgun options out there. You obviously care about your sound and the 416 design is over 30 years old. It's not bad, it's just not that good either. Do you ever hire a boom op and hand boom with the 416? If all you do are sit down interviews, 416 is fine but if you hand boom, I would upgrade personally.
 
puredrifting said:
As long as you are on a buying spree,
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I see you noticed :)

I do a lot of one person sit down interviews which I can handle myself with the 416. Occassionally I have situations where a sound op is needed, mostly because I have a lot of people who need to be laved. I'm trying to do everything myself and not hire a sound op which is why I'm buying all these lav recorders. Very rarley do I need a shotgun where my talent moves around a lot and in those situations I usually rely on the lavs even when I hire the sound op. That being said, if I'm not hiring a sound op, I'll have a production assitant boom audio as a saftey for those situations.

bottom line, the 416 is working out great for me but maybe in the future I'd like something with a little more sensitivity and bite. Here's on of many interviews with the 416 (don't judge me on the terrible cuts):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-vuOyVlY5I
 
If all I shot were sit downs, I would stick with the 416. I shoot about 60% sit down interviews but we shoot a lot of action stuff too, following people around, walk and talks, host segments. Fortuantely, most of the time when we are doing that, I make the clients pay for a sound mixer and I let them worry about things like this. I guess for your situation, if you are happy with the sound, 416 is fine.
 
"I'd like something with a little more sensitivity and bite
- The AT-4073 (discontinued) would fit the bill... if you can find one. (70mV vs. 25mV for the 416 and has more of a presence peak). Of course if it's not in the 'sweet spot' it won't sound very good despite the high sensitivity. Both the 4073 & 416 are interference tube mics, so are not considered the 'go to' mic for interiors.
 
Rick R said:
"I'd like something with a little more sensitivity and bite
- The AT-4073 (discontinued) would fit the bill... if you can find one. (70mV vs. 25mV for the 416 and has more of a presence peak). Of course if it's not in the 'sweet spot' it won't sound very good despite the high sensitivity. Both the 4073 & 416 are interference tube mics, so are not considered the 'go to' mic for interiors.
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What do you like for interiors Rick? I prefer the Schoeps CMC641 or the Sennheiser MKH-50, depending on how colored I want the sound to be for that person's interview or for the scene. To my ear, the Schoeps is more transparent, what you hear is how the sound of the person's voice and the room really sounds, while the MKH-50 colors the sound, but in a way that is pleasant to most ears, more "bombastic" or "reality amplified", if you will? Wish I could afford both.
 
I have a MKH50, AT4053 and an Octava/Sound Room multi-capsule stereo set. The Oktavas(at least the ones I have), sound the closest to the Schoeps IMO, but I usually only use them for live sound gigs (drum overheads) because of their low sensitivity (10 mV). The 4053 has more 'sizzle' than all the above IMO. I use the MKH50 90% of the time for films, the AT is a secondary option. I'd love to have a Schoeps, but the next significant gig $ are allocated to buy a 633, unless unforeseen expenses arise. I currently have a 302/744 combo and some budget Tascams.. DR-40 and 680.
FWIW, I am not a shooter, so I don't have to be directly concerned with cameras.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. Honestly, I think my money is best spent to hire a professional shoosher. I could have used one tonight :$
 
egproductions said:
Thanks for all the suggestions. Honestly, I think my money is best spent to hire a professional shoosher. I could have used one tonight :$
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Damn! I want that gig, I love telling people to be quiet! ;-) My inspiration and role models are the Shooshers in the NY Public Library scenes in the Seinfeld episode with the Library Cop, Bookman.
 
puredrifting said:
Damn! I want that gig, I love telling people to be quiet! ;-) My inspiration and role models are the Shooshers in the NY Public Library scenes in the Seinfeld episode with the Library Cop, Bookman.
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I have an audio guy that LOVES it, too. He (half) jokingly got several assistant coaching job offers from some head coaches last year during a major college conference football media day, because he kept having to go out into the hall and literally yell at people to shut-up.
 
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