Lav Recommendation and Proximity/Transparent Effect

S

simojo

New member
I'm looking to get a lav mic and would like to get your recommendations. Currently I have an Octava 012 and an AT4073a. I've read this link:
http://www.locationsound.com/proaudio/ls/tips/techtips8_4.html
I've also read Jay Rose's book. I'd like to get a mic to use as a plant mic that would cut well with the other mics. Also, I'd like for it to double as a clipped-on interview mic. This would be used on short features or doc interviews.

Size is not critical. If smaller size results in more self-noise and less durability, I'd rather go for a larger can that lasts longer and is quieter. This will be going into a Panasonic DVC80, with cables, not wireless. From what I've gathered, an omni is way more versatile than a harder-to-use cardioid.

I was ready to get a Tram TR50 (seems like a good all-around lav mic) until I read Fred Ginsburg's article:
http://www.equipmentemporium.com/Lavarticle.htm
which is about proximity versus transparent mics. It's a feature I haven't really heard discussed before. It sounds like an ECM44B or TR50 would work well as a general purpose lav, working okay for both transparent and proximity uses. He also implies that having two mics would be even better, like an ECM55B for pure proximity and an ECM77B or AT-830R for pure transparency. (But if the ECM55B is the fat "newscaster/infomercial sound," then I definitely dont want that.)

So basically, I'd like to just buy one mic, unless this is just too much to ask for with one mic, in which case I'll reluctantly get two (kinda like the Octava and 4073a dilemma). The Sanken COS-11 seems kinda pricey, but I'd consider it if it's the do-all mic.

So the mics I'm considering are the COS-11, EMW, B3, B6, 44B, 55B, 77B, AT899, and TR50. Your experience and opinions on this are appreciated. My questions:

Where do the Countryman mics fit into this spectrum of transparent/proximity?
For applications where this is a plant mic (like a wide shot two-shot), does larger element always equal lower noise?
Are the super-sensitive mics like the ECM77B and COS-11 just a total pain to work with for clipped-on interviews? Or are they workable with a bit of skill?

Thanks in advance.
 
I have the sanken cos11 and it is a dream to cut with a boom mic like an oktava or a schoeps. Handling noise is also nil.

I got mine wired for lectro with breakaway xlr power supply so I can use it wired, wireless or even with G2 (eith a TA5 to 3.5mm locking plug adapter). Great mic. I had the MKE2 gold before.
 
If you can afford the $300+ price of the Sanken then that would be my first choice also.

Currently I use COS-11, B6, EMW, MKE2... and I'd probably rank them in that order of preferrence. The B6 is great when you need it... if you buy more then one lav then I'd consider getting a B6. I used this lav in dramatic work with closeups and it's probably about the only lav that I could effectively hide. It was peeking out from the top of the ear, away from hair, and easily forgotten by the actresses.

For the COS-11 I normally use the rubber tape down thingy...
 
Sounds like cost scales with performance. I'll call Trew and see if they have 'em.

I was talking with someone today and they said, basically, that "transparent mic = more sensitive + flat response" and that "proximity mic = less sensitive + peaked response." That does a better job for me to explaining how lavs work.
 
No lav is going to sound as good as your boom mics when used properly. There are many times you can't get the boom close enough to be effective and lavs become a nice option.
 
lavs are indeed a necessary evil, but after listening to a DPA 4063 and a Sennheiser MKE Platinum, i have to admit the technology has come forward a long way. $400-$500 for a lav is certainly reaching that luxury level, but if you have the bucks, i don't think anything can compete with the sound quality of those two lavs.
best all-around performer i'd say is the Sanken COS-11. i don't think the price is too high considering it's matched to 416's and MK41's all the time in post.
 
you dont need to be hit for 500 whith dpa for that :-)
what really matter how do you place it and get less rustle
and we dont talk about me 2 here - i dont think alot of people will heare allot of differenc e betwin normal lavalier in open space
 
thats true, the most important factor is the clothing noise, good placement can reduce that dramatically and a well-placed ME2 can end up sounding better than a DPA with excessive clothing rustle. but, we're assuming for the sake of argument here that conditions are under control, so what mic will provide a better recording. have you heard the 4063 before? or the 4061? i've never heard a better sounding lav, it's really in its own class.
 
i use dpas only for recording singers they have no any benefir in regullar dialog ( yes steve i have dpas sankens golds countrymans and other **** - about 40 lavaliers you know we ra in the same buisness take other peole money :-))
 
haha you crack me up oleg. yea their niche is definitely the music industry. their piano mics are amazing, i wish i had the money for some.
i think some people would disagree with you that a DPA has no place in regular dialogue though. one particular mixer springs to mind, i'll get his feedback next time he's in the store. he uses MKE Platinums most often but lately has been going more to the DPA with great results.
 
mr wexler makes alot of monew so he can put anopther par of f.. schoepses on the side as heto lazi put the swivels :-) - not buy it
by the way i heard that they make trumendes adrs on big feuters 2 :-)
 
he is a great mixer so i take seriously what he says when comparing products he used on a shoot. i want to know about conditions - what sort of noise, RF problems, actors voices, locations - that the mixer has to deal with and what ends up working best and providing the best sound quality. "Best sound quality" is my first concern and "Workaround tricks" coming in second place ;) so I do take Jeff's thoughts seriously and try to test the products myself in my spare time to have some reference.
if the DPA 4063 was $299 instead of $420, would you think it's a better mic? more useful, you'd pull it out of the kit more often? no - i think you're just upset about the prices of certain products. if it's expensive AND a bad product then i would agree with your criticisms ;)
 
no i dont think so , it is more problematic with clothes or no clothes at all ( we dont have suits here :-))
and as i said i use the dpas for high spl
my dear i get my mics cheaper then coffee sound - i dont need to be upset :-)
if you like i cn get you good price fo dpas :-)
 
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