Last minute purchases?

U

USLatin

Panamaniac
I am about to shoot a short and I am worried about my sound. I now have a hand-full of pros shooting this thing with me but my boom op had a family emergency. All I can do is think of him and send him good vibes, but I am still going to need to find someone fo fill in for him. Regardless of what happens to our sound crew, I am starting to feel that my setup might not be good enough for these guys. I mean, I want to make them proud, as I hope to make you guys proud when I host my short for you guys to criticize.
We start shooting the 15th!


My Sound Bag (more like a plastic sandwich bag):

All I have is on location is my HVX or my laptop for recording, an Oktava MK-012, a Rode NTG-1 (that I hope I won't need), a MixPre, and a US-122 which is a 24/96 analog to Digital converter from Tascam for the laptop. In the Laptop I have Sound-Forge, but I think that would practically destroy my work-flow as I have no clue how I would store and organize the hundreds of clips. I also have a 9ft boom, shock-mount and MDR-7506 and HD 280 Pros (64 ohms).

At home (I am editing) I am still using the on-board 5.1 sound card! (I am planning on getting a card for playback quality during mixing, look below). I use the MDR-7506 or Senheiser HD 280 Pro 64 ohms, for quality control, and then try to pan with a set of Logitech 5.1 consumer speakers. For dubbing, I used a small foam for a pop filter but I just ordered a real one. I do have my girlfriend's clothes helping out. The walk-in closet is packed on the left and right walls all the way up, and I plan to use three moving blankets on either side of the door and one on the only bare wall. These blankets I got are 8.2 lbs., 100% cotton, black/white.

I also bought a set of two stands that hold a beam at 9ft. so as to hold a sound blanket (or two) if I need to control my environment a bit, and use them as a bounce/cover.

I am guessing I need to hurry up and place an order for the following items. I added links to the ones I found and most likely would end-up with if you guys don't get to steer me right:



_ Sound Card from Creative with a SNR of 109dB and 7.1. Also I am seriously considering modifying it since I heard these cards can be brought to completely new pro-shocking heights with a steady soldering hand and a few bucks.

_ Location recorder? I was planning on recording to my laptop through the US-122 but that would be a nightmare with Sound-Forge... unless there is a fancy way to set it up. I am open to software and/or hardware, but no rentals.

_ Monitors? Or can I save the money for now by checking for quality on the headphones?
 
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If it's a one-cam HVX shoot you could send sound to the cam and be fine if you set it up right... just my .02

It's bad settings due to human error that cause the most problems... the soundguy is supposed to prevent that and get the mics where they need to be... so if you can do that then you should be okay.

On most of the pro gigs I get we end up sending the audio to the cam... sometimes I record a safety on my 671... sometimes we run a DAT... but so far I can't think of one time when we didn't send audio to the cam and use that.

Higher budget features... and any other time that we're using FILM cams... obviously then it's all double sound... but other then that it's cam. Poor setup or lazy booming are bigger concerns then the better specs of a digital recorder... again... just my experience and my .02
 
USLatinContent said:
All I have is on location is my HVX or my laptop for recording, an Oktava MK-012, a Rode NTG-1 (that I hope I won't need)
Click to expand...

i'm curious, why do you hope you dont need to use the Rode NTG-1?
 
I'm not a fan of recording production sound to a laptop. For one thing, you're adding one more whirring fan to the location's noise floor. For another, the Internal hard drives are rarely up to spec' for prolonged periods of reliable recording, while using external drives further raises that noise floor. Your concern about keeping the hundreds of sound files generated by soundforge organised is well founded, and unless you continually relabelled your sound files (eg. scene, shot, take) you'll be setting yourself up for a real headache in post. Any difference in quality you would experience between the camera and the laptop would likely be offset by the simplicity and reliability of single-system recording. Of course, if you wish to use the laptop as a backup, that could be a wise plan.

Adding a portable mixer to your kit would be money well spent.

Consumer sound cards have been steadily improving, but why not just use the US-122 to monitor your mix? The headphone output alone will be far cleaner than what you're likely to find in a consumer sound card, and it already has XLR mic inputs for your voiceover.

Whatever you do, don't mix it on your multimedia speakers.
 
Actually, recording to a computer is not an issue at all - providing you have the right software. I'm using Boom Recorder now as my primary recorder and recording to a MacBook and I haven't had any problems, nor is there a noise factor that effects the recordings. The right software will handle file naming in a way that makes organization a breeze.

But, this all takes an investment - you need to have the right mixer and a Mac (I have dedicated my Mac to sound recording only, which also helps to ensure no other conflicts.

I also record to the internal drive, and have never had a problem. The comment above about drives not being spec'd for continuous recording is less accurate now than ever before. Pretty much every high budget production is now recorded to hard drive - whether it's in a Zaxcom, Cantar or Sound Devices dedicated recorder, or to hard drive in a Mac (using Boom Recorder or Metacorder). In fact, more and more mixers that work on high-end projects are switching to Boom Recorder or Metacorder as their primary recorder.

I know this doesn't specifically help on your immediate project, but it is certainly something to consider moving forward.

Phil
 
Ok, let me answer a few and update my thinking before I get more responses.

It might be that I am used to seeing Studio Budget sound carts that's scaring me... I shouldn't compare... though I want my sound to compare! :D I wish I had the money for portable 24/96 recorder.

I love the sound of the NTG-1, it is incredible for the $250 I spent on it! But it doesn't compare to the (even cheaper) Oktava, so I hope that my locations will be quiet enough so I don't have to pull out my only shotgun. BTW, it has a veeeery narrow pick up patern, so be it me or someone else who isn't experienced, that in itself worries me.

Unfortunately those programs are for Mac OS and all I have is PC, it would have been nice... but I will probably get a recorder next instead... then upgrade my mixer to a 442 or at least a 302 to add channels for Lavs and get a pair of decent Lavs... till then I will hope I can squeeze all there is to squeeze out of this sound bag since it is really enough to give a decent sound, if well operated... It hurts not to have a real setup!

So...
I am completely aware that with good operation I should get great sound straight to the camera. I am just worried about the density of the recording, because if I were to massage a particular clip heavily on post, I could feel better about it if it were 24/96. But I completely agree that to get that I will have to use a set up that is going to complicate my life, increasing the operational margin of error, then I best just stick to the mic > MixPre > HVX setup... Then I will loop by going to the computer through the US-122 at 24/96, and feel safe about making those match what's being used from location in post.


Things I can't do without:

The Sound Card... can you guys look at the one I chose and tell me if it will do right off the bat for mixing with my headphones and panning with my consumer 5.1 speakers?

Things I can hold off on:

The monitors... the other people in the editing room will not appreciate this, but if they want to get a sense of the quality they too can put on the Headphones...

The recorder... well this one is just a lot of cash... and I would have to get a PortaBrace... and a power supply system... I think you guys would get pissed if I went cheap on it... there is no skimping when you get a recorder... at least that's how I see it... so I don't have $1500 to spend on it... I better wait till I can get the whole thing...
 
instead all of these , you can go for used fostex pd-6
you get 6 channel mixer recorder for 4500 usd used

or wait for sonosax 8 channel recorder for the same sum in near feuture
 
humm... I guess, whatever you say Oleg... but I'll look at those after this project... I can say that $4500 is gonna be way to much for me allready, but you never know right?

Nice to see you again!
Kinda weird you didn't poke fun at me this time though! LOL... :thumbsup:
 
i have extrimly short memory for what i did say in the past , but if you like then here it comes
your current setup sucks big time :-)
 
If you set up a brand new (and comparitively complex) way of running sound on this project... you'll sooner screw it up through your own mistakes then through some gear deficiency.

Not being negative... just reminding people why you get what you pay for when you hire a soundguy.

If I were you I would not look at this from an equipment standpoint so much as a process standpoint. Simpler processes will get you better sound in the end... at least for this job.

Fixing audio in post SUCKS more then anything I can think of... if you have a poor location versus a good location... and equal caliber technique... I don't care what you use as the final recording device... if the 24/96 is in the poor location and the HVX is in the good location then the HVX will win every time.

I'm sure you already know this... but there is much more to worry about then gear... considering you're 2 weeks away.

I've been on really high-end shoots with a soundcart and sometimes we're running 2 tracks on an 8-16 track board... don't get caught up in the appearance of soundcarts just yet... in a lot of cases they're not doing anything a bag mixer can't do.
 
What Matt said (as always)

At some point you are getting extremely dimishing returns on build up a sound kit to be used by non-pros. Just like a Varicam will only get you a great picture in the hands of someone who knows how to use it, you can only get consistent good audio from someone who knows what they are doing. In the meantime a DVX and basic audio kit is fine for most semi-pro work.

Save your money for hiring a pro when the sound will really matter...the pro will bring his own equipment to the job. And the pro won't be cutting his dayrate if you offer up the use of your equipment, in fact using other people's equipment just makes our job harder.

Good luck
 
Wow, you guys just said exactly what I needed to hear the the last three posts! LOL

Oleg: yup! lol :thumbsup:

Matt: what-a-great-way-to-put-it! I thank you so very much for the time you put into that post!

Wabbit: Hey, so nice to see all of you guys again! Great addition to Matt's post about the saving the money for when it counts most.

Ok, so apparently I have one or two film students available... humm... I am meeting with Director and DP Monday... they have worked together many times, they are prime-time camera/steady-cam op and 1stAC... one of them used the HVX on one previous summer pilot... I might have two other guys joining... and at least one of the two film students... I have a part but only supporting... I will try to get me pic. wrapped all in one day... so I just might be able to/have to boom operate

Then again Oleg is probably thinking to himself while laughing "Ohh, no... The project is T-O-A-S-T!!!" lol... I hope not, and while it won't be great I hope it will at least be decent to your ears...

I got this Sound Card coming to replace my on-board, and I bought a sheet of ERS paper to shield both sides top and bottom from interference... I was going to get a Creative and upgrade the OpAmps, and switch the main Capacitor, and use ERS... but I heard this one will be just as good with no need for warranty voiding soldering...

:dankk2: for the support and realism, both are invaluable to audio noobs like me!
 
Hey I never said Oleg was wrong. :)

I said that getting too wrapped up in gear right now is the least of your concerns. As long as you have adequate COVERAGE on your actors for this script you'll be fine... I'm saying not to look at a certain caliber of gear to solve your problems... i.e. using a 24/96 solution for recording versus using the HVX for audio recording.

You DO need to be sure that FOR THE SCRIPT you have adequate mic coverage or else you need to be sure that scene blocking and individual takes will let you get what you need.

Example: You have 4 actors playing poker and then a fifth actor comes breaking through a door on the other side of the room. Can you do that with ONLY the Oktava on a boom pole? Nope... you're going to have to cut that scene up... and if at any point you shoot it with people at one side and the other you need two mics.

I'm saying that look at your COVERAGE first... then worry about the specs of your gear and more complicated recording techniques on the next project (that isn't only 11 days away).

As long as you get mic coverage on the actors that need it while they are delivering their lines... and do that ANY way you want to... then you'll be happy... you don't need a digital recorder for that... you need a good boom op and thought-out blocking for that... or else more mics... or however you want to do it.

At no point in your production should you be recording dialog from more then a few feet away... unless you want a scene with somebody that supposed to be very far away... and then you'll probably mic that wild by booming them from something like 10' away... even if they appear to be 40' away from the cam.

Mic position and placement has a far larger impact on the end product then the thing that recorded the job. At least in the case of the DVX or HVX... those cams do a good enough job that THE CAM won't be the thing hurting you if you don't get good audio.

THAT is what I'm saying. :beer:
 
MattinSTL said:
Hey I never said Oleg was wrong. :) ...

...THAT is what I'm saying. :beer:
Click to expand...

i NEVER SAID YOU SAID HE SAID i WAS WRONG... lol....

No, seriously, I meant what I said.... all three of you guys were right and I was happy to hear what you said.... but you had to go and ruin it now... :crybaby:

lol

Just to clarify, I know that first comes operation, then operation, after that you have to take a look at your operation, then planning blocking and all that jazz... then you need to make sure your equipment has batteries, and finally it helps if it is good equipment.. I am asking specific questions for specific reasons... I learned all I could, tested, etc... not all I have left to do is come through... till we start shooting all I can do is think... and that I do too much of... and I am looking over everything to see if there is something I can do right now... it sux to wait...


anyways, thank for the posts, even the one where you thought I got your previous post all wrong, lol... You've helped me maaaaaany times, and not only in the Audio section... I just hope I can make you guys proud too.
 
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