Knowing what or how many lights needed...

[DVX100Shooter]

When looking at a script for a project how do you go about deciding on what or how many lights your going to need for a particular scene. For example a co-worker told me he was working on a music video recently where they used 16 1K lights to really brighten up a downtown city block in China Town. I am sure they could have used 3 5k's if they wanted to and got close to the same type of look. Is it a matter of reading the script then going to the site (if shooting on location) and surveying the area to see what your going to need?

 

[Slapdragon]

Re: Knowing what or how many lights needed...

[quote author=DVX100Shooter link=board=lighting;num=1089615655;start=0#0 date=07/12/04 at 00:00:55]When looking at a script for a project how do you go about deciding on what or how many lights your going to need for a particular scene. For example a co-worker told me he was working on a music video recently where they used 16 1K lights to really brighten up a downtown city block in China Town. I am sure they could have used 3 5k's if they wanted to and got close to the same type of look. Is it a matter of reading the script then going to the site (if shooting on location) and surveying the area to see what your going to need? [/quote]

Your site survey will be the determining factor.  When you look at a script for example that calls for a dance hall scene with 20 people in a room, then a pair of 1k instruments wont cut it.

I usually plan with a tape measure, a B and H lighting catalog, and some orange traffic cones, a compass, and a light meter.  As long as you know inverse square, and know the amount of light in footcandles an instrument generates at a given distance, you can do some rough calculations on what you need.  For example, I walk into a room 30 feet across with a single window on the southern facing.  My camera needs x light to generate an f of Y.  I draw the room, and place the southern exposure window (confirmed by my compass) and then start to block the action.  The nature of my shoot depends on the light I need to spread about, a horrow shoot being far different than a hospital room.  The window is an important consideration because it is a changing factor that may need diffusion, or may need an overhead and light bank.  Knowing that the sun is in the southern sky in the winter and in the norther sky in summer (in the northern hemisphere), I can also predict that the sun will never throw in my window for this summer shoot, but in the winter it will always throw in, while an eastern or western window provides a different problem of gradual change and the need to control that.

Knowing what the scene is going to be like, I can now make sure my truck will have the needed instruments (always get the smallest package that does the job) and shoot my site survey notes over to the DP / LD for their consideration on how to setup my scene.

10x 1k = 1x 10k, but there are times when each is useful. 1k lights can fit 20 and 15amp services. They can soldier up behind long overheads and provide a soft deep light, whereas the 10k even behind silk is not as diffuse. Plus, 1k are safer to handle since 20 amp services are rarely fatal if they get someone. The 10k requires more effort to fly, better grip talent to stay safe, and more electrical headaches. But a 10k has a much greater punch and a much stronger throw than the 1k, meaning it can reach out and illuminate talent in panoramic scenes.

 

[DVX100Shooter]

Re: Knowing what or how many lights needed...

hmmmm I may have an issue with this because I am not the greatest wiz kid when it comes to math! LOL! I could get someone to do the calculations for me but I am the type of person that wants to learn so I will know how to do it myself.

 

[Bill_Bolton]

Re: Knowing what or how many lights needed...

Slapdragon, are there charts pre-made for my Arri's or should I spend some time with them and a light meter noting down the amounts of light at various distances?

 

[Barry_S]

Re: Knowing what or how many lights needed...

Lighting design is as much of an art as a science.  Usually you can get information on light output and beam spread from the manufacturers, but a lot depends on the complexity and nature of the shoot.  What's your budget?  How much time will you have for setups?  I think it's good to go into a shoot having scouted the locations and with a look and basic plan in mind, but there's a lot of improvising done at the location.  A lot of the reality of indie shoots are tight interiors and low budgets.  Once you're experienced, it will be easier to plan things out in advance, but starting out theres a lot of experimentation--so don't get too hung up on lighting diagrams.  By the time you need to light a city block, you'll probably have a gaffer

Because of the DVX's high light sensitivity and the deep DOF even at wide apertures--you don't need the amount of light that film requires.  This gives you some flexibility.  With a good basic kit that includes a few fresnels, some open-faced instruments, a softbox or two, a chinese lantern on a pole, maybe some flos, you can light a wide variety of indie scenes.  Practice at home with your lights and your DVX--experience is the best guide.

 

[Barry_Green]

Re: Knowing what or how many lights needed...

My technique is that basically I always bring almost every light I have. It is amazing how you always want one more source, one more small light head to brighten up *that* spot...

But Slapdragon's post is excellent! The inverse square rule is one that everyone needs to be aware of, as light intensity falls off at a set rate per distance (double the distance from the subject and the light will be 1/4 as strong... move the light half the distance to the subject and it will be twice as strong).

 

[Rogue Crew]

Re: Knowing what or how many lights needed...

[quote author=Bill_Bolton link=board=lighting;num=1089615655;start=0#3 date=07/12/04 at 08:18:16]Slapdragon, are there charts pre-made for my Arri's or should I spend some time with them and a light meter noting down the amounts of light at various distances?[/quote]

If you go to www.arri.com and follow the links to your heads, you will find photometric data right there as a plan drawing. You can choose metric or U.S. units and can print it out and keep it. If you are using a Mac, you can print it as a PDF file. They also have a photometric calculator tool, but I couldn't make it work with Netscape.

 

[robeditor2003]

Re: Knowing what or how many lights needed...

Anyone know of a good lighting person, I have a video shoot on july 24 it's a paying job. oh yeah its in LA and they need to have.

please email me

Rob

 

[J_Barnes]

Re: Knowing what or how many lights needed...

Here's a good rule of thumb...

If you're doing a something like a night exterior where you need to throw a bunch of lights up and light something as large as a city block...get someone who's done it before. Gaffer, DP, a technically inclined producer, whatever. The time you spend trying to figure it out for yourself will waste valuable resources, and this is one of the few cases in lighting where it's really better to have someone who's experienced over someone who's talented.

Also, as a side note...if you call up or write and email to Mole, sometimes they'll send you one of their catalogs for free. It's huge and costly, so they don't send them out to every student who asks, but I was polite and inquisitive when I requested mine (even offering to pay for it) and one showed up a week later for free. Each light in the catalog had tons of associated data with it, and although the data represents the light's operation under ideal (unrealistic) conditions, the figures can really help out with your planning.

Back to the original question, you can read a script, do a location scout and then work up a lighting plot for each scene using the individual data to estimate the spread, foot-candles, color, and intensity of light...but I think it's one of those things that eventually you do by feel.

As far as specific lights, that’s something that you’ll see is almost never consistent. There are literally a million ways to light a single scene, so it’s as much personal preference for individual lighting instruments as it is the actual volumetric requirements of a given space.

I’ve worked with a gaffer who prefers to use bounced ellipsoidals almost exclusively for interiors, and others who in attempting to imitate Vittorio’s style have used only PAR64 cans to light a scene. I lit an entire film almost exclusively with ARRI redheads, and then another short using only dedo’s, both because that was what was given to me to work with.

So, the answer I’m offering is that when reading a script you end up getting ideas for moods, time of day, and scale of location. Those things will suggest certain ways of lighting a scene. Once you see the actual location, you might find benefits and detriments that will change your lighting ideas (power, ceiling height, historical protections, windows, ventilation, time constraints, etc.). After the location scout, a good look at your budget might further limit or enhance your lighting scheme. Finally, the actual availability of instruments might eventually be the deciding factor.

Most professional shoots carry a grip/electric truck with a specific compliment of lights. Anything required outside of that arsenal becomes a budget expenditure that must be justified, so it becomes impractical to work in a method where lighting is ordered ala carte for each location, although slack is obviously given for difficult/large/night/exterior locations.

Also, while it seems to be getting lost in this era of auteur directors and DP’s, traditionally there have been a number of cinematographers who actually COLLABORATE with their gaffers and request specific light rather then specific lighting instruments, leaving it to the gaffer to use whatever tools he has available to achieve the DP’s requirements. This method seems to be getting lost as Cinematographers adopt the auteur working methods, but in many cases is allows for an inexperienced yet talented DP to achieve scenes that could not otherwise be accomplished with the DP’s knowledge alone.

That’s my $0.02