Kitchen echo

Bayne

Bayne

Well-known member
I am shooting a kitchen scene here soon and I am trying to minimize echo in the kitchen without having to put up sound deadening material and swap it back and forth all night. I have tried to cover the mic with gaffer tape, a paper towel roll (with paper towels) and taken the foamy off of the Mic completely. When taking the foamy off the mic it significantly helped the echo in the room. Is there any other tricks to help with this or am I at the mercy of the echo.

Im using an azden SGM-2X and have a possibility to use a much nicer sounding mic for the actual shoot date.
 
Use the much nicer sounding mic =)

A lot of reflection in that place, the arzden is just not meant for that kind of stuff. Although other things you can do to try and minimize the echo that doesn't necc. mean changing or putting stuff over mic. And sound absorbing material (blankets, pillows, bunches of clothes) will help pending how shot is set up. Close any draps, etc.

Also placement of mic. On boom? Above your target?
 
Suck location = suck sound... unless you change the location it won't matter if you use a Schoeps ($1500)... the better the mic the better it records the acoustic space.

A location with high echo can't be controlled by switching to a mic of another pattern.

The best way to minimize echo is to cover the floor with something to absorb the reflections and then mic as close as possible... I'd even change the look of that scene so that mics can be right on top of the actors.

But the bottom line is you'd be way better off choosing another location.

This is a very ironically appropriate post. If I didn't know better I'd think you were a friend of mine baiting me into a thread...

If you want good sound the first thing you need is a good location... the second thing you need is good mic placement... the third thing you need is a good mic... but without addressing the first two things the third thing is a waste of money.
 
you might throw some sound blankets on the floor , set up a few sound blankets on C stands ( to right & left out side frame ) .. if using a short shotgun you might switch to mic with shorter throw ( regular cardiod pattern)
 
Sound blankets on the floor are a good start, although then can be rather dangerous to walk on. Rugs and rubber-backed carpet, although less effective, will be less prone to sliding around underfoot.

As for sticking things to the mic, don't even bother. Traditional shotgun mics reject sounds coming in from the sides through carefully engineered interference tubes. Blocking the side vents can compromise the directional characteristics of the mic, potentially making the accoustic problems dramatically worse.

The only other suggestion I can think of would be to get the mic as close as possible to the actor's voices (lav's may help here).
 
Hi Bayne,

It sounded like you were on the right track trying to shield the microphone. I would have tried using a lavalier and cup some gaffers over the foam cover to shield all the sound except the direct sound waves coming from the talent.

Regards, Michael
 
guys, seriously. dont stick gaffer tape on your mics. this is plain silly.

First line of defense: It all comes down to acoustic treatment - this is your number one concern. You want to deaden as many surfaces off camera as possible - this means THE FLOOR, THE OPPOSITE WALLS, and if possible, THE CEILING. Generally speaking, any surface that will reflect the first bounce of audio out the actors mouth should be as dead as possible - this is usually the opposite wall, and varying ceiling/floor amounts.

Second line of defense: You need whatever mic you use CLOSE. This needs to be communicated to camera/director and anyone else - if they want this scene to be great, it needs to be great within the parameters of sound - low headroom is important. Remember that sometimes (depending on shot and situation of course), booming from below can help with echo and background noise - using the actors body as a shield of sorts.

Third line of defense: matt said that no mic will get rid of echo, and he's right - but some do better than others. you DONT want a shotgun. you do want a hyper, or if the shot is very tight then maybe a cardioid. This is to do with rearlobes on mics hearing more reflections off certain surfaces/environments. With lavs, you can try using a less open sounding mic (B6's and Sonotrims/Trams are pretty good for this). Sometimes you might want to track a lav AND a boom so you can mix the more open sounding boom with the closer lav and get the right perspective (best do this in post if you arent too experienced - if you HAVE to do it on set BE REALLY CAREFUL WITH PHASING).


Hope this post helps.
Tim
 
For the record... the ONLY reason I mentioned the floor ONLY is because the poster implied that anything hanging would end up in the shot... and about the floor? I'm not talking about laying out a blanket or two like a throw rug... I'm talking about turning that floor into a bed. I reread my post above this one and I'm sticking to it... suck location = suck sound.

I'd love to hear/see some video where people took an echoey location... and fixed it with a few sound blankets... this is one of my biggest pet peeves. If there's a serious echo problem then it 'aint going away with a few blankets... I don't care where you put 'em. I have 15 of them... some of the time I can fix a location, but most of the time the treatment isn't even noticeable with ALL 15 of them. You'll have to nearly cover at least 3 of the reflective surfaces... not just around the mic or actors... and most likely 1 layer won't do it.

Unless you have no other choice... and I mean genuinely have NO other choice... it's insane to try to shoot in an echoey location.
 
Last edited:
No kitchen should be big enough for an actual echo.

Reverb? Yeah, some.

But then you have to ask yourself...why don't you want the kitchen to sound like a kitchen? :)
 
Everybody needs to get out their Oktavas and head into the kitchen and hold that mic overhead from a close booming position... if you have an open floor plan, with unparrallel walls, and a good way for reverb to escape that kitchen then you'll say "yeah... a sound blanket or two should do it"... but if you have a smaller, more boxey kitchen... then get ready to be shocked. It won't sound like a kitchen... it'll sound like a bad effect added in protools.
 
you right matt, of course. I was just listin some other options to try out.

I did get some good results a month or so ago in a boxy little kitchen by doing a full cover on two surfaces - floor and back wall. I was careful to leave the two doors open though - Im sure that helped. But you can get lucky sometimes. :)
 
Thx alot everyone for the advice. I will try and use it to my best for this upcoming shoot. Its a beautiful loc and most of the shots have camera motion in them, hense, the awkward C-Stand hanging blankets. But thanks everyone.

Bayne
 
If the shots allow it you can treat some reverb in a harsh room with blankets and baffles. Some reverb is ok if it fits the environment but using a shotgun gives you more problems then just echo. Reverb is frequency dependent and the shotgun's polar pattern is too. What results is that some frequencies end up canceling each other out while others are emphasized. Depending on the location of the mic you end up with a very hollow sounding voice.

If I were in your situation I would treat the room as best possible (baffles usually more effective then blankets) and use lav mics. Their omni pattern and close proximity to the signal will give you the best possible sound in this situation (usually).

People are also excellent sound baffles, the more people in the room the less reverb.

If nothing works and you are married to the location and shots then ADR is sometimes necessary.

Good luck
 
moonlitnite said:
Hi Bayne,

It sounded like you were on the right track trying to shield the microphone. I would have tried using a lavalier and cup some gaffers over the foam cover to shield all the sound except the direct sound waves coming from the talent.

Regards, Michael
Click to expand...

You have to be real careful about anything attached to a mic. Have you ever seen a live concert were the singer is holding the mic with both hands over the the windscreen and suddenly you get this horrendous feed back. What the singer did by cupping his hands over the capsule like that was create a omni directional mic picking up everything in the room including his own voice back through the stage monitors. If things start to get taped to the mic you may just be setting that mic to pick up more of the "sounds" you were trying to mask in the first place.

Also... I once did sound in a kitchen and put up blankets until I didn't get a reflection anywhere. When we watched the dailies it sounded like the whole scene had come from ADR. We added reverb in post and it still sounded too good. It didn't sound natural. We went back to the same kitchen, used half the sound deadening, and re-recorded the scene. Worked great. Listen to your space before you shoot and determine how much you can take out and still keep a natural feel. It helps keep the time in post down.
 
Last edited:
Jon,

Good feedback regarding cautions getting things near the microphone - for sure, testing is mandatory (both feedback and inadvertant movement being induced into mic). And yes, ADR came to my mind as well.

Regards, Michael
 
I think what Jontuttle was getting at was that taping up the sides of a mic will not give you the results you may expect.

A cardiod mic is not just an omni mic with with the rear vents blocked off. Wrapping a microphone in tape will typically decrease its usefullness as a directional mic. If that actually worked, we'd all throw out our bulky parabolic mic kits in favour of a shotgun mic inside a long plastic pipe. Waves refract around corners, and sound is no exception.
 
I get into blue screen backgrounds far more than I'd like and in THAT situation everything needs to stay blue and not be covered by anything. Blue painted smooth walls, floors and smooth curves from the floor to those walls makes matters worse and, again, no covering allowed : (

lavs are the only answer in this case. Trams do a better job because they can be placed under the clothes, so *some* of the verb doesn't get in.

lavs then ADR. Name of the game sometimes.
 
is the sound stage not acousitcally treated on the ceiling and back wall? :(

by the way, have you tried out the blue and green smoothies from (ugh) rycote? apparently pretty cool for keying out the mic!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top