Kinefinity MAVO LF

Pricing themselves a bit too high on that one, IMO.

Paper specs look great but for that kind of money you can get into RED territory with USA support.
 
NorBro said:
Pricing themselves a bit too high on that one, IMO.

Paper specs look great but for that kind of money you can get into RED territory with USA support.
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That is what I was thinking, but if it is too cheap, then people expect it to be inferior based on price. Where is the fine line that says quality product but worth the "gamble" to give it a try.
 
My issue is that the camera is really not a competitor to some of those other cameras that are on that NS article/list because people considering the ARRIs, REDs, Venices, etc. are most likely not going to consider a Kinefinity...at least not yet until they are extremely proven because the people working with those cameras will most likely be working on very important projects.

So that leaves the high-end prosumer group whom are looking at the RED Ravens, Scarlet-Ws, C200s, EVA1s, and it's just a bit too much (at least for Americans, IMO) to invest that kind of money without the peace of mind assistance.

It's one thing to invest in a $1295 4K Pocket which may break on the first day vs. a $12K body plus another $3K+ in accessories.

It's also literally $500 cheaper than the Scarlet-W brain, which is an excellent camera...and that's big competition regardless if the MAVO LF is full-frame or has dual-ISO, etc.
 
NorBro said:
Pricing themselves a bit too high on that one, IMO.

Paper specs look great but for that kind of money you can get into RED territory with USA support.
Click to expand...

What other LF cinema camera can you buy for $12K??

Kinefinity is massively cheaper than the competition. (cheapest is the C700 FF for US$33K)

Even if you ignore RED's vistavision cameras, what is their cheapest PL S35 brain? The Scarlet W for US$12.5K, which the Mavo LF is marginally cheaper than. But very significantly cheaper when you compare the total overall package cost! As each little extra accessory you need doesn't have the RED brand tax applied to it.
 
NorBro said:
Continue reading and maybe you'll understand better.
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I get what you are saying and I agree, they are placing this camera in kind of netherworld as far as price and user base. $12k is way too expensive for most hobbyists and is too cheap for anyone whose client base would justify RED, Arri or Venice. None of these clients would be happy with the Scarlet W either IMHO. Lets face it, the most typical buyer of cameras like the Arris, REDs and Venice are rental houses and they won't be lining up to buy a dozen unproven, low demand Chinese cameras.
 
puredrifting said:
I get what you are saying and I agree, they are placing this camera in kind of netherworld as far as price and user base. $12k is way too expensive for most hobbyists and is too cheap for anyone whose client base would justify RED, Arri or Venice. None of these clients would be happy with the Scarlet W either IMHO. Lets face it, the most typical buyer of cameras like the Arris, REDs and Venice are rental houses and they won't be lining up to buy a dozen unproven, low demand Chinese cameras.
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Perfect. Really nothing else left to say.

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It's too expensive and too cheap (if that makes any sense).

Of course they will sell a few, but not an ideal price in 2018 with the rapid change and competition for the people who would buy more of them than the people who are looking at the other aforementioned bodies.
 
puredrifting said:
I get what you are saying and I agree, they are placing this camera in kind of netherworld as far as price and user base. $12k is way too expensive for most hobbyists and is too cheap for anyone whose client base would justify RED, Arri or Venice. None of these clients would be happy with the Scarlet W either IMHO. Lets face it, the most typical buyer of cameras like the Arris, REDs and Venice are rental houses and they won't be lining up to buy a dozen unproven, low demand Chinese cameras.
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Of course hobbyists are unlikely to buy this. And it is unlikely many on the very high end will use it a lot either.

But there are tonnes of small production houses or independent DoPs who would consider a $10K ish camera, give or take a few thousand.

Kinefinity just needs to capture a small percentage of these to do well.
 
Not as much as you think...times have changed.

The LF is $12,000 plus $1,500 for the basic kit. Plus another $500 for an EF mount (the cheapest one available).

That's $14,000. That is a lot of money for a camera. Especially - as mentioned - to buy here in the states and have no human beings you can talk to if something goes wrong. You have to e-mail someone in China and it's one or two (MAX) e-mails a day because of the time difference.

I owned a KineMINI 4K. I've been though it. Excellent communication and support from them, but painfully slow. If your $14,000 LF camera breaks here in the USA and you need to send it back to China to get it fixed, do you understand what kind of nightmare that may be?

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I also don't want to scare anyone. It could be an absolutely amazing, amazing camera and maybe the one dealer in Hollywood, CA may be able to fix and support all problems (I don't know), but if not...it's something to consider.
 
For this camera to be successful at these prices someone has to come up with big money to become a full USA support dealer, chances are he'll make a fortune doing it!
 
Unless something has changed, haven't they said they really don't care about the US market(and the headaches that come with it)?
 
They don't need the US market. If a few people in the States buy Kinefinity models ( the Mavo or others) then that's a start for them in that market. They probably have a realistic business model that understands they aren't going to conquer all markets overnight or even make a dent. On time deliveries, good results, good reliability, and good word of mouth will build the market for them as it has for others..... or not. We'll see.
 
Yea, they've been making cinema cameras for 6-7 years already and even though they keep getting better and better, it's an uphill battle.

IMO, I feel like these are just pet projects for them anyway...every camera they have made so far seems to get discontinued in 2 years or so (KineRAW S35, KineMINI 4K, KineMAX 6K). They are already successful in the astronomy camera design industry and trying to expand and use that expertise and knowledge in the cinema sector makes sense and I love what they are doing, but I just don't agree with the price.

People still laugh at Blackmagic (also 6-7 years later) and "can't trust their cameras" even after they have done very well...can you imagine if they didn't have any affordable cameras and released a $12K body?

You wouldn't hear the end of it.
 
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Not the best example...the F700R was still being sold brand new last year. (Or maybe it was 2016.)

C100s still going.
 
IronFilm said:
But there are tonnes of small production houses or independent DoPs who would consider a $10K ish camera, give or take a few thousand.
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The ones where there are local(ish) dealers who can provide support are more likely to consider Mavos than the ones here in the US, where Mavo isn't that much less than a Gemini, so most who are considering a purchase of that magnitude will go with Gemini in the US.

At that price point, customer support is a big deal, and without any solid US based support network, Kinefinity can't come close to providing the level of service that Red does.

In China however, Kinefinity probably can and does, and I wouldn't be surprised it was outselling Red over there.
 
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