I think this will be a reality we will all have to start getting used to. The west will become less and less important. There was a time the USA was the biggest marketing for everything. This is no longer the case. It's happening to the car industry, it happened already with Hollywood where movies are no longer made for American audiences and are now actually even targeted at China. It's happening to everything. I don't think some realize how huge of a market China is. They basically no longer need us in the west. The west is more dependent on them now. How many western companies wouldn't be able to compete if their products were not made in China? It's clear Kinefinity is not very worried about the U.S. market or they would have opened an office long ago. They probably sell enough cameras to keep them busy in China alone.
Kinefinity MAVO LF
- Thread starter KrocanX
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I think this will be a reality we will all have to start getting used to. The west will become less and less important. There was a time the USA was the biggest marketing for everything. This is no longer the case. It's happening to the car industry, it happened already with Hollywood where movies are no longer made for American audiences and are now actually even targeted at China. It's happening to everything. I don't think some realize how huge of a market China is. They basically no longer need us in the west. The west is more dependent on them now. How many western companies wouldn't be able to compete if their products were not made in China? It's clear Kinefinity is not very worried about the U.S. market or they would have opened an office long ago. They probably sell enough cameras to keep them busy in China alone.
Aha, and there you go. :laugh:
Posted my last reply before I read this. It's pretty obvious really. Even cars now are being designed specifically for China, when a decade ago every car was basically designed for the U.S. market.
Definitely a sign of times changing. You are right. I remember when some U.S. companies wouldn't bother with some international markets including China. Now they are all punching themselves to get in the Chinese market. Times changing indeed. Hard to put a number. But in probably 20 years time it will be all China.
starcentral
Veteran
It looks a bit appetizing but I have to ask, is there anyone left in the market to sell a camera to these days? Does everyone already own one, heck even two "cinema" cameras already?
cheers,
cheers,
Well, under these pretenses no new cell phone would be sold anymore. But people need to feel special. So latest and greatest even if the latest is not really greater. How else will they feel confident about themselves?
NorBro
Major Contributor
Certain products like cars, clothes, food, etc. can be made for and sold in a certain part of the world, but their cinema cameras will have to make it into the United States if they want to grow their company.
This was also said on BMCuser too:
"I actually anecdotally have heard they don't do as well as you'd think domestically in China. The F55 / Sony's are the go to cameras for higher end productions. I used to work with a company that sells a lot into the asian market and they seem to think Sony is what everyone wants."
I think you might be living in the 1970's when the whole world watched mainly American films. Bollywood is bigger than ever and produces more films than Hollywood already. China already produces more content than the U.S. as well. China is now the largest market in the world and American films are going silly to included Chinese stars in their films, or shoot scenes in China or even making versions of their films specially for China. It's getting so bad that it's looking forced already. All just to desperately appeal to Chinese audiences, who seem to be caring less and less for Hollywood films and foreign stars and looking more and more to their own stuff.
Kinefinity absolutely doesn't need the U.S. market in the same way Jackie Chan and Donnie Yen don't and never seemed to care all that much. They are huge stars in Asia and especially in their homeland of China, which alone has almost 1.5 billion inhabitants or almost 5 times the population of the U.S.
Proof that Kinefinity doesn't need the U.S. is that they are already in their 4th camera, without even having an U.S. office right?
The last quote sounds like it could be just hearsay. Logic and hard facts point the other way.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
I also think they don't need the US market as might have been the case 20 years ago, but I find it easy to believe that Sony might be the best seller there. Still, 5% of the Chinese market is more than enough to keep a company like this pretty busy. How many RED ONE cameras were sold?
BTW the Terra6k does great on this test. Looking at that, I'd put it right behind the Helium, together with the BM4.6k, and ahead of the VaricamLT.
BTW the Terra6k does great on this test. Looking at that, I'd put it right behind the Helium, together with the BM4.6k, and ahead of the VaricamLT.
starcentral
Veteran
Which kinefinity never shipped, despite pre-orders - was that even true?
NorBro
Major Contributor
I disagree with all of that and I'd like to keep debating but I would have to assert political thoughts and I can't do that.
And I loved Jackie Chan as a kid...but he did come to the United States to make movies or were they all filmed in China?
TERRA 5K.
You may disagree. Doesn't mean it's not true. And about political reasons, I suspected as much. But it has little to do with politics and all to do with economics. All I said can be confirmed with a simple google search, in case you have been living under a rock.
Didn't say Chan never made movies in the U.S. I said he is a bigger star in China and doesn't need U.S. success and he doesn't. He has said so himself when asked if it bothered him he wasn't famous in the U.S. This was before Rush Hour. Rush Hour was the movie which made him well known in the U.S. But some people don't realize he was making movies in China for 20 years already at that time and was a big star and millionaire there. He never needed Rush Hour. It was more of a nice thing to have than a need. After that he pretty much went back to China and only makes some English speaking movies sporadically. Donnie Yen doesn't have an U.S. career at all. Yet he is a huge star and millionaire in China.
As Samuel said, China is so big that even 5% of the market is enough. 5% of the Chinese market is like having 25% of the U.S. market.
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Yes of course. One has nothing to do with the other really. I can believe Sony is bigger than Kinefinity there. Kinefinity is niche.
NorBro
Major Contributor
You may disagree. Doesn't mean it's not true. And about political reasons, I suspected as much. But it has little to do with politics and all to do with economics. All I said can be confirmed with a simple google search, in case you have been living under a rock.
Didn't say Chan never made movies in the U.S. I said he is a bigger star in China and doesn't need U.S. success and he doesn't. He has said so himself when asked if it bothered him he wasn't famous in the U.S. This was before Rush Hour. Rush Hour was the movie which made him well known in the U.S. But some people don't realize he was making movies in China for 20 years already at that time and was a big star and millionaire there. He never needed Rush Hour. It was more of a nice thing to have than a need. After that he pretty much went back to China and only makes some English speaking movies sporadically. Donnie Yen doesn't have an U.S. carrier at all. Yet he is a huge star and millionaire in China.
As Samuel said, China is so big that even 5% of the market is enough. 5% of the Chinese market is like having 25% of the U.S. market.
Yen has been in the US before and has choreographed and had cameos in a few films.
People may find success anywhere in the world but there is only one Hollywood.
Is having been in the U.S. the same as being a star in the U.S.? Choreographed and had cameos? Are you kidding me now? Is that the reason he is a big star in China then? Or why is it even worth a mention? He became a star in China and never needed Hollywood for that. He has a world wide following and never needed Hollywood for that.
I disagree. There is also a Hollywood in Florida for example. On a serious note, Hollywood is struggling and is now totally dependent on the international box office. This is not the 1970's anymore.
NorBro
Major Contributor
On the other end of the spectrum, Lytro was bought by Google:
https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/20/sources-google-is-buying-lytro-for-about-40m/
Some had high hopes for this camera:
https://www.lytro.com/cinema
https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/20/sources-google-is-buying-lytro-for-about-40m/
Some had high hopes for this camera:
https://www.lytro.com/cinema
I only mentioned Yen because you said he didn't have a US career, but you actually said carrier, so you might have meant something else.
It's all good either way.
Yes, I meant Yen has never worked for UPS or FedEx.
:grin:
It was obviously a typo. I actually caught myself writing start when I wanted to write star. It happens when I type long texts in a hurry and without proofreading.
But yes, Yen doesn't have a U.S. career. Choreography and cameos is not a movie star career. He has a career in China. Even after he has appeared in Star Wars you can't really say he has a career in the U.S. He is a guest sometimes. That's different. And even then only because he became famous in China first.
And by the way, you know why Disney put Yen in Star Wars right? :happy:
NorBro
Major Contributor
Yes, man. It's obvious they put a Chinese star in a worldwide blockbuster film to have success in China.
All big movies in life moving forward will do this with anyone (target audience/market) to one degree or another if they haven't already.
But none of this pointless opinionated discussion relates to why Kinefinity shouldn't have offices in the USA or other countries (even though I'm hearing they have one in Germany).
All big movies in life moving forward will do this with anyone (target audience/market) to one degree or another if they haven't already.
But none of this pointless opinionated discussion relates to why Kinefinity shouldn't have offices in the USA or other countries (even though I'm hearing they have one in Germany).
Yes, they indeed have a reseller in Germany. But no hold at all in the European market as far as I know.
Nobody said Kinefinity should not have an office in the USA. We are just saying they don't need one to be successful. If they did you can bet they would have one by now.
And Hollywood is targeting China because it's the largest market now. This is all I was saying regarding that and it's absolutely related to the Kinefinity discussion. Kinefinity making cinema cameras + China growing to be basically the largest cinema market = Kinefinity having enough people to sell to in their backyard alone. This is the most logical explanation why they don't seem interested in the U.S. market.
NorBro
Major Contributor
But movie ticket sales in China (just googled it) reached a new record of 56 billion yuan ($8.6 billion) in sales in 2017 - which definitely supports your point about the growing market - but it's just not logical to compare that to camera sales.
That is entertainment people digest everyday. It is a part of life like food & water.
Cameras, especially cinema cameras, are a niche product. They will not be selling 8.6 billion dollars in cameras ever.
I forgot what we were arguing about, but maybe it's about success...which is relative. You're right; they can sell a few cameras in Beijing and be very successful.
But coming to America - even though I agree may be an inconvenience - certainly would not hurt them. All they need is one office, even a small one.
The Germans did it. The Australians did it. The Americans (RED) are doing it all over the world.
So I guess that's where we're at...what is success.
That is entertainment people digest everyday. It is a part of life like food & water.
Cameras, especially cinema cameras, are a niche product. They will not be selling 8.6 billion dollars in cameras ever.
I forgot what we were arguing about, but maybe it's about success...which is relative. You're right; they can sell a few cameras in Beijing and be very successful.
But coming to America - even though I agree may be an inconvenience - certainly would not hurt them. All they need is one office, even a small one.
The Germans did it. The Australians did it. The Americans (RED) are doing it all over the world.
So I guess that's where we're at...what is success.