Just starting out - Need help deciding what to buy

S

Shiversul

New member
Ok, so, I'm in my final year of high school and next year I intend to go do a Film course at a University (I'm Australian, so we don't call it College :P)
After that I don't really know what I'll do, try to get a job as a videographer? Shooting weddings?
Doesn't really matter.
But what my real passion is for is Filmmaking, so even if I have a job like that, I'll be making short films in my spare time.

For this year I have to make a short film for my media class. I really want to do well and get into this top 10 of state competition which will get me into any Uni pretty easily.
Not many people enter this, only 200 or something last year, so it shouldn't be too hard.

Right now I'm just looking at what equipment to get.
I currently have a Sony CX100 which isn't nearly good enough. Doesn't even have a manual focus...

I've been reading these forums a lot trying to figure out what I should buy and I don't really know all there is to know about Cameras and lenses and all the terminology you guys use, I intend to learn before the shoot though (Which is July 1st-19th)
If you guys could recommend any sites or books I should read to learn all this stuff, it'd be great :P

My budget is pretty limited, as I only have a part time job at McDonalds, but I'm determined to have at least $5,000 (Hopefully more) by July. I currently have $2,400.

I've been looking at the Cameras in the under 3K range, and I think I'm going to buy a 550D or a 60D (Can't decide yet, if you guys could give me advice on this as well it'd be great) and a HMC150 (Don't worry, my rig can edit AVCHD).
A lot of my film will be in dark places, so I'd like to use the Canon DSLR for shots that aren't moving to get a really great image. I've been looking at the Canon 50mm 1.4 lens, if you guys could give an opinion on what lens to buy as well that'd be great.

So that leaves roughly $1,000-$2,500 left to spend on accessories.
I need a new tripod, and I have no idea what I'll need for my HMC to support it and be able to move it smoothly.
I'll also need a Mic, not sure what to get though.
And I think I will need a Monitor (And something that attaches it to the tripod? Not really sure how that works)

Then I'd also need to buy some batteries and cards for the cams.

Anyways, I really want to make my film visually impressive.
I've made short films in the past and I'm pretty confident I can take on these new cams if I practice with them or read up on them.

Also, since I live in Australia, I can't rent them and shops sell everything here for way too much. For example the 550D here costs $1,500 as compared to B&H's $780.
And I'm not even sure I could find a shop that would sell the HMC.
If there are any other online shops that ship internationally that are better than B&H, please let me know :)

All of your help is really appreciated, I've been reading tonnes into this but still can't make up my mind.

Thanks :)
 
Don't worry about what you can buy, worry about what story you can tell. Concentrate on a good story. And don't forget that you'll only need a better camera for a short time, maybe a week or 2. So maybe you can rent a camera, rather than buy one, and you can rent much more camera for $1,000 or $2,000 than you can buy.
 
The combination of cameras is a good choice...HMc150 for deep focus and establishing shots and the DLSR for specialty. I priced out 3 Canon primes for a 60D - 20mm, 50mm and 85mm - around $1200 bucks for all 3. These are not L series obviously, but all of them are fast aperture USM auto focus and I believe the quality would be better than the zooms and definitely faster. The range I chose was based on listening to people on here and that the Sony F3 comes with that range as a set, except they have a 35mm instead of a 20mm (I figure 20mm would be of more use to me for wide shots). B and H and Adorama are really reliable companies for gear...I'd got through them if I were you or any of the sponsored dealers on DVX User. I'm in a similar situation- I live in Montana and other than High end consumer cams, I pretty much have to shop online. I for one would not want to rent if you are sharpening your skills and looking to figure out what you can do...there is a lot of value in owning your own stuff. As a musician ,I bought my own recording gear because renting studio time sucks...especially when you have a day job. Now further down the line if you really have a great story (good advice by arniepix) and you want a high end look, then maybe rent a Red or whatever. I can however tell you that right now- you have enough money to buy a great combo and not have to wait
Canon HFS200 - 675 at b and h, Canon T2i around $700- a couple of primes for around $700. Let me tell you- don't underestimate what you could do with those- The T2i would do the lowlight and the HFS200 is really good at everything else....or you could spend another $3000 grand! Yes your $5000 set up is IDEAL....but the other gets you going NOW!
 
Keep in mind that audio plays a large part in movies, this will be very apparent as you read this and any other video forum. do yourself a huge favor and invest in good audio as well.
this will require more than just a microphone.

for the T2i you absolutely want an external recorder and several microphones to cover different situations as not one mic is good for all occasions.

you will want to end up with the following:

external recorder such as a Zoom or Tascam portable recorder with XLR inputs and phantom power (to operate condenser mics)
shotgun microphone, such as Audio Technica AT875r, Rode NTG2 or something along those lines.
a Hypercardioid small diaphragm condenser such as Oktava MK012 with hyper capsule, or Avantone CK1 or somethign similar.
possibly one or 2 wired lavaliers, omnidirectional like the Rode Lavalier, or Senheiser MKE2,
a boom pole
a nice set of headphones like the Sony MDR7506
some sort of wind protection for your shotgun for outdoors.
a few microphone cables long enough for your boom mic, or lavs.

the examples I gave you are of the budget variety and by any means not the top of the heap but good starting points for someone taking their filmamaking seriously.
the nice thing is whether you record to a camcorder or to a DSLR this entire kit is what you would want to be able to capture good audio, as with any other discipline knowing how to use it is the biggest factor but at least you will have the tools.

Good luck
 
Shiversul,

+1 to what Recordingwhiz said. I hang in the audio forum quite a bit and I can't tell you how often a new forum member comes there and says "I just spent all my cash on this great cam, and now I need advice on how to get pro audio for $300". And of course the answer is you can't.

While DSLRs have a real attraction (me included) they aren't a cheaper way to go since you need to hang a bunch of ornaments on them to make them work, and all those ornaments cost real $$$. IMO, under the circumstances, you can afford only one cam, and I would start with a regular video cam like a HMC80 or HMC150, and if you really are shooting lower light than the 150 would be the better choice. They are both complete with the features that are essential to doing video. The only real advantages to a DSLR are shallow DOF and low light advantage if you can afford fast glass. The other reason for only one video cam is you will have a small but workable budget for audio, memory, a few lights, and stix. Now I have to tell you the facts, given your budget, you will be making cost compromises in your kit, but if you are really careful, you can buy stuff that will build for the future as you collect other stuff a piece at a time. You'll get lots of advice on how to handle this, but the best advice I can give you is the audio, lighting, and support products, if you buy decent quality, will last indefinately. Cams come and go, though a HMC150 is a pretty safe bet for some time to come. If you hadn't mentioned the low light criteria, the HMC-80 should be considered. I have a HMC-40, which has the same guts in a smaller package, and bang for the buck, it is very capable. Before I bough anything, I would read every sticky in every forum here, and then read them again.

Grant
 
Thanks for the advice guys, I'll start reading the stickied threads :P
And as I pointed out before, I can't rent anything.

Also, do I really need external mics now?
I'll be adding to my gear all throughout the year, but I'm trying to figure out what do I need before July.
 
I'm in a similar situation like you, only I live in Croatia so renting is not available...at least for the kind of equipment I want to use. Being a Nikon photo user for a few years I decided to buy discounted Panasonic GH-1 (hackable) for 500$ which is a great deal for me because I can use all my Nikon lenses with adapters. The rest of the budget is going on audio/lighting. I'm probably buying Rode Video Mic Pro for on camera use. Zoom H4n recorder and some more mics but still looking around for these. Also a fluid head for my Manfrotto tripod...701HDV, 501HDV... LED lighting, support for GH-1, steadicam...step by step :)

Let me know if I can help you in any way.
 
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I am one of those that still DOES recommend DSLR's for video, except when you have LOTS of money to spend.

People always talk about 'all the other things you will have to buy next to it to make it work', but what about a real videocamera? Does that come with a tripod / microphones (decent) / SD or CF cards / dolly / etc. ect?
No it doesnt.

However, most (semi)professional camcorders have built in XLR inputs and decent pre-amps and built in ND filters.
Look at Juicedlink for very sharp priced high quality preamps, which will cost between 200-500 $. ND filters are cheap, its not even an argument really.

So, a nice DSLR like the 60D/7D or GH2 is much cheaper than a professional camcorder that might save you that 500$ but comes with its own limitations as well... No interchangeable lenses, smaller sensor and simply less creative options...

I have to admit, the Panasonic AF 100 is changing the game and puts camcorders back in the league for low budgeteers, but 5000$ is still a lot of money for most of us, especially when there are cheaper options like a DSLR...

Yes there is moire and aliasing which will have to be worked arround with, but it is possible.
 
Shiversul, If you want to start making movies that are worth watching then Yes you do have to get an audio kit now as well. Audio is Extremely important to the perceived quality of a film.

Having good audio is more critical than you may think. as you watch all the amateur video out there, audio will be one of the thing that will set apart the good from the bad.

Making very nice pictures with bad sound is like having a Ferrari with cheap scooter tires.
 
Hey Stab,

How do you handle your video shoot when your DSLR catches on fire after whatever time limit is on the sensor. A Juiced Link is swell, but can you effectively monitor your audio and ride levels from the cam while using it. And the actual recording quality of a DSLR is pretty suspect after plugging a Juided Link into it. And the sweatness of your cheapness will shrink when you start buying L-series glass. Did you say your Canon DSLR has great focus or iris adjustment in live view? huh? I do a fair amount of still work, and there isn't much cheap about a 7D or a mkII and a few L series lenses. Your creative advantage is shallow DOF, after that, there is a diminishing benefit.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen some great work come from a 5D or 7D, but a guy starting out needs greater versatility and less hassle IMHO. Not saying a DSLR doesn't have a place, just not as a first cam.

Grant
 
Did I say that I wasn't worried about audio? :P
I'm just not sure how much money I should be putting into the aspect.
Would $1-2K be fine?
I'm only really shooting in a small garage...
 
ggrantly said:
Hey Stab,

How do you handle your video shoot when your DSLR catches on fire after whatever time limit is on the sensor. A Juiced Link is swell, but can you effectively monitor your audio and ride levels from the cam while using it. And the actual recording quality of a DSLR is pretty suspect after plugging a Juided Link into it. And the sweatness of your cheapness will shrink when you start buying L-series glass. Did you say your Canon DSLR has great focus or iris adjustment in live view? huh? I do a fair amount of still work, and there isn't much cheap about a 7D or a mkII and a few L series lenses. Your creative advantage is shallow DOF, after that, there is a diminishing benefit.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen some great work come from a 5D or 7D, but a guy starting out needs greater versatility and less hassle IMHO. Not saying a DSLR doesn't have a place, just not as a first cam.

Grant
Click to expand...


I have 60D and apparently they fixed the overheating issue as my 60D never overheats and shuts down itself. Yes, there is a 12 minute recording limit but in exactly how many situations are you making a 13 minute shot? It doesnt happen in narratives, commercials and anything like that... It only happens in sports and in very few interviews where the speaker has a long story to tell.
If that is what you're planning to shoot, I agree that you should never buy a DSLR. However, for me, and for people who shoot commercials and narratives I'm sure it is not a problem.

The sound question: Juicedlinks have a headphone jack so you can monitor the sound. The cheapest Juicedlink however does not, but you can buy a headphone adapter for like 10 bucks. The 60D has a pretty nice sound quality from itself if you turn the gain down and Juicedlinks gain up. If you dont like that, link the Juicedlink to a H4N or something similar and Im sure you'll get very acceptable results.

I have not said anything about focus adjustment in live view. However what you say about L-glass... You do not need L-glass for shooting video only. HD video is barely 2 mp in resolution and the Canon DLSR's actually resolve less resolution than that. It doesnt make a big difference between a 'middle class' lens and L-lenses when it comes to video. For stills, that is another story of course.

Anyway, I dont want to be an DSLR advocate but I was just one of the people who needed a less pricey option to get great looking footage and I went down the DLSR road myself.

It does has to be noted that you have to have lots of knowledge before you can succesfully create good looking footage with a DSLR, and if you want the easy way then I indeed recommend a midrange camcorder.
From the other hand, you can learn a lot by practicing with the DLSR because you will learn to shoot with a sensor size as large as 35mm film and can get used to all the manual settings that you have control over.

I agree with you, it has it's place. Yet it was my first cam :P
 
Shiversul.

$1k to 2K should be enough to get a decent starting sound kit. reference my earlier post and read up on the audio forum, all this is well covered in there. add more $ if you want wireless.

Good luck
 
You can suck up 2k very easily on decent audio equipment. It is a very talked about topic in the audio forum. Search is your friend.

Grant
 
I live in Geelong, so an hour away from Melbourne.
I guess I can, I just don't know much about doing it :P
How expensive is it to do it?
Also, I don't know how to use all this equipment, so it probably isn't a good idea to learn whilst renting.

Also, does anyone know if I can register the HMC 150 with Panasonic for the warranty even though I'm in Australia?
 
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Ah, I see, a bit of a drive. Here's Lemac's rental menu to give you some idea of how much it costs to rent gear.
I've found that the warranties for equipment purchased from the US haven't been valid in Australia. I figure that the saving on the total cost outweighs the chance of the cost of replacement or out of warranty repair of a defective item.
 
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