Just Bought H4n, Please Help! Will be shooting on Monday.

[Chamber005]

IMHO, there is no such thing as a different standard for indies versus the mainstream studios and networks. There is no such things as a "good enough" soundtrack. The only "good enough" for anyone is simply the best that they can possibly make it. True, the established players have more assets to devote to the project but in the end, the audience's reaction is the only thing that matters. They have been schooled to expect major studio sound as representing the norm and they simply don't care if the indy producer has to stretch the budget to the breaking point to deliver it. If you go to MacDonalds and have a burger that makes you sick, do you care if the unit is a company-owned store or a franchisee? Their business arrangment is completely irrelevant to you, all you're concerned with is the end result. Likewise the audience doesn't care if you have Spielberg's super deep pockets or are struggling just to pay the rent - all they care about it what it sounds like and, at least subconsciously, they're comparing the sound of every moment of your film to the sound of the very best films they have ever seen. There may be practical limitations on how far you can go, but you always have to push the envelop as far as you can to deliver the best, state-of-the-art quality possible. You can never say "this is good enough" because good enough, never is.

But see, that's my point. There doesn't seem to be a scientific answer in any of what we're talking about regarding the noise floor of these different recording devices' preamps.

Also, I don't understand why people are talking about using a mixer with the H4N when, as I understand it, it's impossible to bypass its preamps (unlike the H4 which you can bypass using the 1/4" line-ins).

Is there anywhere that we can obtain a scientific measurement regarding acceptable noise floor? *I* can't judge what is acceptable because additional hiss, etc. doesn't both *me* -- but it does bother professionals whose critique's I've gotten as well as audience folk. So no amount of me deliberating on a personal level what is "good enough" will provide any real answers. I simply want us to have some sort of a line in the sand regarding noise floor from someone who has the audio experience. From that we can then know which of these devices are acceptable and which are not for professional film work.

Right now we just have people stating opinions regarding the gear they use -- and the gear they use typically came from the opinions of someone else.

I feel like someone on these boards must know how to (or has already) achieved some sort of scientific schematic on this. We have a bazillion tech-specific threads on everything digital video, but for some reason sound is just, "So and so used this, so I use it. It sounds better than that one because it's made from this company, not that company. So then I plug this into that and place it here, but the guy over there plugs that into this and places it over there, which I think is weird, but both of our tracks sound the same..."

It's like all riddles when it comes to audio. I don't know if people are just trying to keep their trade secrets...secret or if everyone in audio literally just "plays it by ear" and doesn't care in anyway about the science of it (which I'd find hard to believe considering the level of technical intellect that is typically displayed on these boards regarding video equipment)

 

[Tim Joy]

Just because it's not possible to bypass the preamps doesn't mean you don't get an advantage by using a mixer, and the resulting lower gain settings required on the H4n.
Also, it does have a line in on the 1/4" inputs, so essentially you are not using the mic preamps to their full potential, which will sound better at the lower gain necessary.

There is no scientific answer because there are so many variables. The mic, the cable, the room, the actor, the positioning, the mixer, the headphones, the experience of everyone involved... the list goes on.

The technical details can only tell you so much. I think most audio people will use their (experienced) ear as "the buck stops here". That's what I do, and I'd suggest the same to you. Get one. Try it. Listen to it. Is it acceptable? Is it not?

To me, the H4n is more than acceptable sound quality-wise for pro level work. Usability and ergonomics- I don't like it very much at all, but I put up with it because the next step up is $$$.

If you know how to set it up properly, and you have a good mic, the noise floor is nill. It's super quiet. NOT through the headphones, but the actual recording when you play it back on proper monitors.

 

[tflak]

Just because it's not possible to bypass the preamps doesn't mean you don't get an advantage by using a mixer, and the resulting lower gain settings required on the H4n.
Also, it does have a line in on the 1/4" inputs, so essentially you are not using the mic preamps to their full potential, which will sound better at the lower gain necessary.

There is no scientific answer because there are so many variables. The mic, the cable, the room, the actor, the positioning, the mixer, the headphones, the experience of everyone involved... the list goes on.

The technical details can only tell you so much. I think most audio people will use their (experienced) ear as "the buck stops here". That's what I do, and I'd suggest the same to you. Get one. Try it. Listen to it. Is it acceptable? Is it not?

To me, the H4n is more than acceptable sound quality-wise for pro level work. Usability and ergonomics- I don't like it very much at all, but I put up with it because the next step up is $$$.

If you know how to set it up properly, and you have a good mic, the noise floor is nill. It's super quiet. NOT through the headphones, but the actual recording when you play it back on proper monitors.

Well said, Tim. I had just written a rather long response to some of the previous posts but saw this and decided not to post it because you've summed things up so well and so clearly. Makes a lot of sense.

I would only add that it's not like anyone is risking a major chunk of change by buying an H4N and actually seeing if it does what you need it to do. Besides, it's a great little device. You can always find some use for it or sell it if it doesn't cut it for your production needs.