Juiced Link Riggy & small audio recorder for use with GH2 & BMC

[ade4all]

I have a few queries that hopefully folk can help me with....

Background - I make documentaries, some event work and am looking to use a pre-amp/mixer and occaisionally a small audio recorder with a Panasonic GH2, and eventually a BMC.
I am some times a one man band and would like to be able to use my Rode NTg3, Oktava mk012 and Rode lav mics either recording directly to gh2 via the pre amp, and when possible, preamp & audio recorder. I would also like to from time to time use the lav mic & audio recorder on the talent as a poor mans wireless - I realise I wont be able to monitor sound this way but it would be a useful back up for certain projects

I would love to be a able to afford the SD mix pre-d and at some point that is the aim, but at the moment I am thinking of the Juiced Link Riggy Assist 222 as a pre amp, and something small like the Olympus LS-7 or Sony PCMM10 as audio recorder (easy to fit in someones pocket when using with lav mic)

Will the Riggy give me reasonable audio direct into the GH2, (much easier & safer for me to just have to press record on 1 device and if I can avoid having to sync sound that would be great) or will it be much better connected to audio recorder?
How long will the batteries last using phantom power on say the NTG3?
Can I run a line in direct from Riggy to either of these audio recorders?
Can these audio recorders power the Rode lav mic with its 3.5mm adaptor (I think it needs 1 or 2v to power this way)?

Are there better alternatives you can suggest for about the same budget?
the preamp/mixer needs to have xlr, phantom power, headphone socket & levels would be good
the audio recorder needs to be as small as possible, economical with batteries and have a line in to be able to connect to mixer
When the BMC is available I imagine running the Riggy directly into it & would only need the audio recorder for using with the lav & GH2

Ajny help would be greatly appreciated, thankyou

 

[TheDingo]

Keep in mind that the JuicedLink pre-amps output MIC level audio, so you need a recorder that has a low noise-floor to achieve optimum quality from this set up.

The GH2 has a MIC level RMS noise floor of -63 dB, which is the same as my HMC-150 camera. This is good for a video camera, but you may want something better when it comes to a portable recorder.

The Olympus LS-7 works great as a body-back for lav mics ( it's very tiny ), runs for 30+ hours on one set of batteries, and is low cost. ( $130 at B&H Photo )

For a good recorder to use with the Riggy, my first choice would be the Tascam DR-100, which maintains a -83 dB RMS noise-floor for it's mic inputs with the pre-amp set to LOW or MEDIUM. For a more compact recorder, the discontinued Olympus LS-11 is a great recorder if you can find one. Very compact recorder, -72 dB RMS noise-floor for it's mic inputs, runs for 17 hours on two rechargeable AA batteries.

The Sony PCM-M10 has a mic pre-amp with a noise-floor that starts off at -75 dB RMS, but goes up to -49 dB RMS at it's maximum setting.

The Tascam DR-40 mic pre-amp noise-floor starts off at -80 dB RMS and goes up to -50 dB at it's maximum.

Because the Riggy puts out a strong mic signal you could probably get by with almost any low-cost recorder, but take away the Riggy and you may find the recorder to be too noisy.

 

[ade4all]

Thankyou Dingo, some great advice - I appreciate it

I had a hmc151 too not so long ago, are you saying that with the riggy connected to the gh2 - the audio quality, at least noise floor would be about the same? If so that would be great, better than I was anticipating as I was happy enough with the sound from hmc151. I am coming from the AF101 which is a minor increase in quality again audio wise.
Or will I need the audio recorder in the chain too to achieve comparable quality with hmc151?

would really love to avoid using audiorecorder & having to deal with dual sound if I'm on my own, and in an ideal world would only use the audio recorder with the lav mic.....
the one thing I'm confused about is you mention because the riggy outputs MIC level, you need a recorder with low noise floor, but then you say that as its such a strong mic signal any of the recorders would probably do
My query is - as I am planning on only using the recorder with the riggy or directly into the Rode lav - would it therefore be best to get the LS-7 cause of its size etc - or would the more expensive recorders you recommended give me better sound in both instances?

Also will the LS-7 definitely be able to power the Rode lav using its 3.5mm connector?

As I am hoping to get BMC at a later date, I had read that I need to feed its 1/4" TRS jacks a line in from the riggy for optimum quality - will the riggy be able to do this or is it just MIC level?

On a side note, is there a way of defeating the agc in the gh2, is that what the riggy is doing?

Sorry for all the questions, just needing to clarify really

 

[dcloud]

im planning to get a riggy assist as well.
right now im planning on my next cam.
gh3 and bmc looks to be my choice.

 

[TheDingo]

Are you saying that with the riggy connected to the gh2 - the audio quality, at least noise floor would be about the same?

Yes. Here's a video I shot last January where the Sennheiser wireless mic was being recorded directly by my GH2:

Ronnie Burkett Interview

I am planning on only using the recorder with the riggy or directly into the Rode lav - would it therefore be best to get the LS-7 cause of its size etc - or would the more expensive recorders you recommended give me better sound in both instances?

The Riggy into almost anything should give you good sound, but if you want the best sound you can get from it, I would use a recorder with a low noise-floor like the Tascam DR-100 MK2.

Also will the LS-7 definitely be able to power the Rode lav using its 3.5mm connector?

I haven't used a Rode lav with my LS-7, but it works with my TRAM 50 and Sanken Cos-11x lavs. Just make sure you turn mic power on.

As I am hoping to get BMC at a later date, I had read that I need to feed its 1/4" TRS jacks a line in from the riggy for optimum quality - will the riggy be able to do this or is it just MIC level?

The Riggy outputs MIC level, so if the BMC can only accepts LINE level, then you will have to find something else. Are you certain that the BMC will only accept LINE level signal?

Is there a way of defeating the agc in the gh2, is that what the riggy is doing?

The AGC in the GH2 acts more like a limiter, so it's not a problem. Just set the recording level to it's lowest setting on your GH2, and you are ready to go.

 

[ade4all]

fantastic, answered all my questions pretty much - thanks again
on further research it seems the BMC can handle mic or line level, so all is groovy - guess I just had it in my head that line level from a mixer would be best but if the Riggy gets decent audio from mic then who am I to argue

 

[ade4all]

sorry one last question, then I'll leave you alone......
I used the Zoom h4n a coupe of years ago & the battery life & thin sound from using phantom power I thought was awful - am really hoping the battery life from using a Riggy to supply phantom power will be somewhat better - I was getting through a set of batteries every half hour or so with the Zoom - is the Riggy more efficient?

 

[TheDingo]

I was getting through a set of batteries every half hour or so with the Zoom - is the Riggy more efficient?

Most low-cost recorders/pre-amps have poor battery-life when it comes to supplying phantom power. I have no idea how long a Riggy will last on Phantom power, but I would not expect much from it.

The Tascam DR-100 and Olympus LS-100 recorders will provide over 2 hours of phantom power when running from their rechargeable lithium-ion battery packs.

You have to move up to a Sound Devices MM-1 boom-op pre-amp or MixPre-D mixer if you want to get longer lasting phantom power. ( both of these will last 4+ hours on two AA rechargeable batteries )

 

[Postmaster]

The Riggy outputs MIC level, so if the BMC can only accepts LINE level, then you will have to find something else. Are you certain that the BMC will only accept LINE level signal?

For the record: You can switch the BMC between line and mic level and the Riggi works just fine with my BMC.

Frank

 

[ggrantly]

Also for the record, the Tascam DR100 has a dual battery feature. It has an internal LiIo and a pack of AAs also. You can program the recorder to use either battery first, and then will auto switch to the other. This is a nice feature in an inexpensive recorder.

Grant

 

[ade4all]

Thanks Frank, good to know the Riggy plays nice with the BMC - how is the battery life like using phantom power? Its the main thing that drove me mad about the Zoom and dont really want to get into a battery fest again....makes the Sound Devices stuff seem more enticing and cost effective over time.....more than I wanted to spend though

The Tascam dr100 does seem to be the best of the cheaper recorders, am just wondering if its a bit big & somewhat overkill if I will mainly be using it connected to the Rode lav mic in someones pocket......decisions decisions....

 

[TheDingo]

The Tascam dr100 does seem to be the best of the cheaper recorders, am just wondering if its a bit big & somewhat overkill if I will mainly be using it connected to the Rode lav mic in someones pocket

The Tascam DR-100 MK2 is one of the best low-cost recorders on the market, but I would never try and use it as a body-pack recorder, it's just way too big and clumsy for that.

The Olympus LS-7 recorder makes a perfect body pack: it's tiny, runs for 30 hours on one set of batteries, records good sound, and you can lock all the controls by sliding the power switch to the "hold" position, so that nobody will accidentally change it's settings while it's clipped to their belt or sitting in their pocket. It's also dirt cheap at about $130.

 

[Postmaster]

Thanks Frank, good to know the Riggy plays nice with the BMC - how is the battery life like using phantom power? .

With a fresh charged 9V battery I can shoot about a day (narrative or commercial) with my Oktava or NTG1 - but I switch it of when I don't have dialog and between takes.

Don't know how long it will last non-stop.

Frank

 

[ade4all]

thanks again for your prompt answers, the Riggy battery life seems to be better than using an audio recorder for phantom power & hopefully the pre amps will be better too
think I will go with the Olympus LS-7 for size convenience, though cant find it as cheap here in the uk....presume using it with the riggy would also get better audio than riggy into gh2 but when i'm on my own the riggy gh2 combo should be good enough

 

[TheDingo]

Olympus LS-7 : I presume using it with the riggy would also get better audio than riggy into gh2 but when i'm on my own the riggy gh2 combo should be good enough

The LS-7 has a MIC noise floor that starts at -72 dB RMS, rises to -66 dB around the middle of it's pre-amp range, and finally tops off at -55 dB. The GH2 has a noise floor that starts at -63 dB. ( at it's lowest setting )

With the Riggy you should get an additional 6-7 dB over recording directly to the GH2, and the audio won't be compressed.