Jib on a dolly

Eric Coughlin

Eric Coughlin

Veteran
Anyone use a jib on a dolly?

I've been wanting to get a Seven Jib and put it on a Matthew's Dutti Dolly, likely with the tripod extension base that Matthew's has available as an add-on, and put a Kessler K-pod on top of that. Does that setup sound solid?

Get some poor man's Chapman or pneumatic jib shots that way.

I have a Hollywood Microdolly now, which is quick to setup and folds down small, but the weight capacity I believe is around 100 lbs (Dutti dolly is 800 lbs), and it's not as smooth as some other dollies such as the Dana Dolly (I haven't personally used the Dutti dolly, but I imagine it's similar smoothness to the Dana). I used to use a Kessler Pocket Jib Traveler on the Microdolly with a C100, and I was able to get some unique shots with that setup, though it wasn't super stable, but neither the jib or dolly are rated to take a 35 lb camera and head setup with 90 lbs of counter weight and a 20 lb tripod.

Matthew's also sells an elevator kit for their dolly system which could get similar shots with a smaller footprint and setup time than a jib. It's rather expensive though and only goes up and down while a jib can also go left to right as well.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1301712-REG/matthews_415068_elevator_kit.html

1480592764_1301712.jpg
 
Do you mean you'd use the dutti dolly directly on a hard surface with no track? That's probably your best option but you obviously need the right surface.

Otherwise there's the k-flex track with dolly trucks/this accessory.

The jib on the dolly might slightly bounce, which might not bother you though depending on the shot. Like with a larger dolly, you'll probably get better results with a dedicated person for the slide, while you do the jib movement.

I'm not sure who purchases the elevator. It looks like pretty specific application, mostly for scenarios where a compact set up is needed and you want to spend a lot of money on something. The 6.5' travel on the seven jib provides much better value IMO.
 
I do it all the time with a microdolly jib and a CamTram on speed rails. The CamTram has wheels on the bottom of the rail as well to stop tipping which is helpful. Great for all kinds of shots.
 
Eric

Yep I do https://vimeo.com/334637799

You seem unclear what you are trying to achieve.

A jib is unstable (for a 2min lockoff shot on a 100) whereas a Chapman or $50 tripod can hold a shot for a week.

The Matthews product is to ‘fil the hole” between a hi hat on your jib and sticks
 
morgan_moore said:
Eric

Yep I do https://vimeo.com/334637799

You seem unclear what you are trying to achieve.

A jib is unstable (for a 2min lockoff shot on a 100) whereas a Chapman or $50 tripod can hold a shot for a week.

The Matthews product is to ‘fil the hole” between a hi hat on your jib and sticks
Click to expand...

Awesome setup Sam, I'd definitely hire you. Do you have any samples that show off a slide/jib/movi move all at once? Or have you mostly used the set up for the benefit of flexible camera placement?
 
Eric
Do you know the track width of the duti dolly - it might be 19inches, id suggest this might be a bit narrow for a typical small jib, 24in is the standard track width, my dolly is the size of a sachler spreader closed which is maybe an inch smaller - Id think this is about the minimum width you would want.
 
Rob, why would it need to be without track? PVC or angled rods can take plenty of weight. I guess you're just saying you wouldn't want to mount 150 lbs of weight to say Matthew's slider stands. But no, I'd imagine putting PVC or angled rods on the ground and mounting from there. I suppose you could mount on apple boxes as they can take plenty of weight.

I know one person who owes (or used to) a K-flex track and he hated it and barely ever used it, and I know another guy who worked for a company that had it and hated it too. It always looked good on paper to me but I've only heard bad things about actual experiences with it, primarily that it's really heavy and a pain to setup.


From the Matthew's site...

Overall Length: 19.25”
Center to Center Slot Distance: 16” (specific to the dutti dolly)
https://products.msegrip.com/products/the-dutti-dolly

The dolly is 20" x 24". With the tripod wing setup it supports up to 30" diameter tripods (I can't find specs for the K-pod diameter).

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1413646-REG/matthews_395410_dutti_dolly_wing_kit.html

dutti-dolly_silver_dutti-wings_0817_above-tripod_RGB-SQ-99-1024x1024.jpg




What I'm trying to achieve are dynamic shots such as push-ins (or outs) without worrying about the dolly getting in the shot, push-ins where the camera is also moving up or down as it moves forward, overhead dolly movement of a camera looking down, dollying through and above objects such as furniture, etc.

The appeal of the Dutti dolly to me is it is smaller (for lugging around and transporting) than most full size dollies and has a lot of versatility, being able to act like a Dana Dolly slider, up to a full dolly that you can sit on. I would think if you can put a person on it, you could put 150 lbs of jib, weights, and camera on it. You don't think that'd be stable?
 
Its just my experience that my setup is not super super stable on 24in track. The thing about jibs is that they have a lot of inertia when swinging or acc/deccelerating which is basically different from the 'static/compressive' load of an operator. Big jibs have wider track

http://www.ronfordbaker.co.uk/products/track/

Offeres track with a spread of up to 2m for a super techno.

Probably the trick is to try and get some hands on time at a dealer or with a chum.

My (self fabbed) dolly is a T shape that probably packs smaller (but longer) than the Dutti.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Rob, why would it need to be without track? PVC or angled rods can take plenty of weight. I guess you're just saying you wouldn't want to mount 150 lbs of weight to say Matthew's slider stands. But no, I'd imagine putting PVC or angled rods on the ground and mounting from there. I suppose you could mount on apple boxes as they can take plenty of weight.

I know one person who owes (or used to) a K-flex track and he hated it and barely ever used it, and I know another guy who worked for a company that had it and hated it too. It always looked good on paper to me but I've only heard bad things about actual experiences with it, primarily that it's really heavy and a pain to setup.
Click to expand...

I own the original version of the flextrack concept which was marketed by Losmandy along with their Spider dolly with articulating arms. Bought it in early 2000's and used it as recently as last year on a James Corden shoot. It is a bit cumbersome to lug around (so is track) and takes a minute to set it up (one side needs to be straight if one is aiming to dolly in a straight line, but they make simple u-channel guides to help with that). Other than that, it is very stable and smooth and avoids many of the pitfalls of the Dana Dolly which is to me bafflingly popular in comparison, namely that the aerial systems are not great with longer lenses due to vibration. The Losmandy ecosystem includes the Portajib riding on that track so it can certainly take the weight.

The Dutti is a smart piece of gear. I think of it more as a means to get ultra low shots--as Sam said I'm a little curious if it is a wide enough wheelbase for stabillity with a jib on top.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Rob, why would it need to be without track? PVC or angled rods can take plenty of weight. I guess you're just saying you wouldn't want to mount 150 lbs of weight to say Matthew's slider stands. But no, I'd imagine putting PVC or angled rods on the ground and mounting from there. I suppose you could mount on apple boxes as they can take plenty of weight.
Click to expand...

I mean if the surface is smooth why lay track down at all instead of using the dutti dolly wheels directly on the ground?
 
CharlesPapert said:
I own the original version of the flextrack concept which was marketed by Losmandy along with their Spider dolly with articulating arms. Bought it in early 2000's and used it as recently as last year on a James Corden shoot. It is a bit cumbersome to lug around (so is track) and takes a minute to set it up (one side needs to be straight if one is aiming to dolly in a straight line, but they make simple u-channel guides to help with that). Other than that, it is very stable and smooth and avoids many of the pitfalls of the Dana Dolly which is to me bafflingly popular in comparison, namely that the aerial systems are not great with longer lenses due to vibration. The Losmandy ecosystem includes the Portajib riding on that track so it can certainly take the weight.

The Dutti is a smart piece of gear. I think of it more as a means to get ultra low shots--as Sam said I'm a little curious if it is a wide enough wheelbase for stabillity with a jib on top.
Click to expand...

I shot this (first 25 seconds) with a Dana Dolly and a handful of apple boxes for the height. The dips to black are only there to let me move the track closer after each shot. This obviously wouldn't work many other times. The slow pace was pretty much the only option before introducing obvious instability into the shot, plus it took a while to "settle" before beginning the move.


For a straight push into an object without titling, would the Dutti Dolly with bazooka work? Or is the center of gravity too high for a small dolly like this?

Dutti_Bazooka_Camera.jpg
 
Grug said:
With enough sandbags, you can easily put the centre of gravity where it needs to be (down low).
Click to expand...

Good point. The dana dolly runs out of real estate pretty quickly though with boxes in the way!

I know it's probably the wrong tool where it excels as a slider more than a dolly replacement but it's good to find out exactly what you can get away with if you don't have access to anything else.

Do you think a heavily bagged dutti dolly with bazooka would be fine?
 
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