Is this lighting possible?

A

appleguy

New member
Hi all,

I would like to pull off some unique lighting idea for a project I saw something similar on another project.
Basically it involves using a light of somekind to create a narrow beam of light that has as little feathering across as possible and can be used to flash over a car.
As though the light was a beam around three to four inches across and as long as the shot requires so we can see it 'scan' over surfaces.
The image I found is this.



Someone I know suggested that it be done with two passes and using a mask to cut from light to dark but I don't see why this couldn't be a simple practical lighting effect which would make the days shoot far easier to control.
It would be great to hear from you all.
 
Elipsoidal reflector spotlight...like a Source 4 by ETC. They make them in HMI and traditional incandecent. ERS's are basically slide projectors and the beam can be shaped into a sliver using the shutters situated at the gate within the fixture, no external flags or doors, making it easy to pan and tilt about. The edge can be as hard or as soft as you'd like.

My theatre might be showing here...and I am without formal film lighting training/experience so take what I say with that in mind.
 
Source 4, Dedolight, tight snoot on a Fresnel, pair of holes in a piece of foam core, there are a number of ways to do his. What lighting instruments do you have at your disposal?
 
To see (photograph) a beam of light.... it needs to have an "atmosphere" eg fog, dust, smoke..

Photographing a car (shapes and surfaces) is all about the reflection of light. What you see in the surfaces is the reflections of the light sources (and anything else you have not controlled)

Aiming a sharp light at a car will not achieve the effect shown.
 
I don't want to see the beam in space, I want to see it hitting an object so simply put instead of aiming a spotlight at a car and getting a spot of light on the bodywork i want it to be a thin line of light that can move across the bodywork and something I can move around over the body of the car.

Kit wise we're renting lights in so whatever you guys can suggest really.
Pickthorne someone else suggested something similar a source 4 Leko, you could be onto something there.

cheers
 
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You will need to devise a way to see a reflection of your " thin line of light" and then devise a way to make it move.

ie ..you need to see the source of the "thin line of light".

If you choose the Source 4s....what would you project them onto? Black screen, grey screen, white screen. None of them work as a screen or as a reflection.

BTW - your source and screen need to be massive to cover the lens like contours of the car surfaces.
 
I reckon you'd use a softbox (or Chimera in the video world) that is only strong enough to produce a reflection. A strip light with build in "barndoors". Put it on a boom... pan the boom over the car to ge the reflection.
Then at a seperate angle but from the same direction, aim a Source 4 at the same area panning at the same speed.

The softbox would generate the reflection but not enough light to light the car and the source 4 would generate the light.

Disclaimer, I have no idea if this will work... :D it does inside my head hehe.
 
It wont work.

This is an indicator of the kind of scale of a soft box required to photograph a car because of the curves and contures involved

A car is a mirror of its surrounds. You photograph the reflections. (Actually thats the same with most objects except a car is also ...shiny). The reflections are the light sources..and anything else that is not masked. eg the studio grid an d the light stands, and the crew... etc....

http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?q=li...&w=468&h=336&ei=IDUaUOzaK-vUmAXYuoGQDA&zoom=1
 
Shooter is right. You do need large sources.

Here is something that was on the smaller scale, a test really, though, it demonstrates the point of how large the sources are when compared to a single fixture to create seamless reflections. Rather than small specular dots.
But this wasn't a perfect setup by any means. Because, even those platypus clamps will likely be visible in the giant wide angle lens that is the surface of a car. Even a large toplight silk/whatever you choose to use will have to be completely seamless.

And of course, every car is different. Which is definitely part of the beauty, and challenge of displaying the cars personality and shape in a fitting manner on screen.

IMG_1333.jpg
 
Working under those massive soft boxes in a blacked out studio is one of the magic moments that one sometimes experiences as a D.P (or crew)

The light is so soft and so close...everything gets wrapped and contoured in it . Looks gorgeous.

The other moment I enjoy is a full white limbo cyc
 
For revealing and suggesting shape and curves you will certainly need very large lights as pointed above, for nice and smooth reflections.
But. If you only need a smallish moving strip of light, you might be able to get away with a 4 ft light (kino or rectangular soft box) close to the car and possibly a wide lens. The wide lens is important for some shots because it will pick the light reflection from wider angles. In other words, where a long lens won't pick up reflection, the wide lens will. You will still likely need to move both the light and the lens to keep the reflection going around the surface. How well will this work depends on the kind of shot you want. And you will still need to black out stuff around the car, or you will pick unwanted reflections.

I strongly suggest reading up on product photography. This will teach you a lot about managing and exploiting reflection, and especially specular reflection. Shooting cars is really just a scaled up product photography task.
 
if i understand you correctly, you want a small strip of light to move across an object. there's no trick to it. block out everything that's not the strip of light you want, and then point it over the object.

you could use flags. you could use blackwrap. you could use your hands. whatever blocks the light.

i will suggest you put the object that's blocking the light as far from it as possible, to get more hardened shadow edges, and use a hard light.

if it were me, what i'd probably do is put two flags with the small strip in between them on two c-stands, untightened so you can move them, and tie the flags together so they move together. there are probably other, possibly better ways, that's just the first that came to mind. look around and be creative.
 
There is a trick to it.

You will see everything that you suggest reflected and you underestimate the size of the light source and the masks required.

Try it and see.

Actually...the trick is ...lots of dollars, lots of time and probably multiple passes ( motion control) ...then some serous post production..
 
well you can see the reflections in his reference photo, too. i guess i must just not quite understand what he wants to do.
 
Pickthorn is on the mark. The US ellipsoidal UK profile fixtures have a focal point in the optics system - not like fresnels, so anything at the focal point plane can be projected.

There are usually four shutters and a perfect line of light can be created with the fixtures as they come out of the box. Not new - these have been around since the late 60s. If you want to create patterns then you use gobos, which you slide in. usually metallic because of the heat at that point, but glass is available.
http://www.dhalighting.co.uk/

With the shutters you can created the line of light very simply, and if you want to see the beam, hire a hazer, and then the light in the air can be seen too. Not the same as a smoke machine, as the particle size is much smaller in a hazer and cameras can see right through it. You can't do it with a Fresnel and barndoors without the edges being soft. Gobos and shutters can be really sharp in fixtures with decent lenses - like the ETC source 4s. 575 or 750W lamps

With something like a custom gobo in a bright moving light fixture, you could programme the movement so it's repeatable take to take.
 
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Those units would definitely have a place in achieving this but how?

Lets assume the car is in a perfect limbo set ( floor/ wall / ceiling cyc) This required to be lit so there is a base exposure on the car. (Lets assume a black car o a white cyc)

SO...What does one project the unit onto . White? How will the beam show as a hard contrasty edge.

consider a black cyc...and also ...how will the beam show.

I come back to lots of $$$ lots of time lots of post...multiple pass (motion control)...and in all of that is where the light units come in.
 
The only way these lights could make sense for lighting a car is if you only really care about the diffuse reflection. Which is not the common way of lighting shiny objects. Beautiful specular reflection is all about light size (and light-to-subject-to-camera distance).
But hey, if you don't want shiny you can totally shoot with small/hard lights. Make sure they don't make specular reflections though.
 
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