is there any substitute for 16mm?

R

randomname

Well-known member
I'm going to be shooting a short in the near future that the director and I both agree would really benefit from being shot on a really grainy film stock on 16mm, although we both have very little experience working with actual film and the cost would pretty much eat up the entire budget. We can, however, get a good deal on renting an F3 and thats a camera I've been wanting to get my hands on for a while, but is there a good way to add that dirty, grainy look (think black swan) in post or through filters?
 
randomname said:
I'm going to be shooting a short in the near future that the director and I both agree would really benefit from being shot on a really grainy film stock on 16mm, although we both have very little experience working with actual film and the cost would pretty much eat up the entire budget. We can, however, get a good deal on renting an F3 and thats a camera I've been wanting to get my hands on for a while, but is there a good way to add that dirty, grainy look (think black swan) in post or through filters?
Click to expand...

Organic 'grain' is really something that is not naturally achieved in digital cameras. Digital cameras have something similar called noise. It's similar but not the same.

You can add digital grain into an image with sophisticated plugins that replicate film grain... if that's the feel you want. I'd very much caution the filmmaker who thinks gain noise can be used as a substitute for grain aesthetic.


That is just considering the aspect of grain. As far as other aspects of 16mm, there is the following:

DoF... the F3 will actually have shallower DoF than 16mm if you are exposing and composing the same. You can always deepen the F3 DoF in order to match what 16mm would be, but then there is background compression/fov issues that are different b/c use of lens.

Just as digital cameras have different looks, so does 16mm. The film stock you are wishing to emulate with digital can be one of many different looking stocks. Who's to say what you should use to emulate the stock.

One of the most fundamental responsibilities of the cinematographer is to identify what he/she wants, recognize what he/she has to work with (know what the camera sees), and use camera tricks/techniques to compensate for the difference. First identify the desired look and test the camera to be used. Find the appropriate filters needed to get the look closer to what the picture/story requires. Somethings can be done in post (added organic like grain), while somethings might be better in camera. Without specifics, I can't tell you which, and knowing which is well earned knowledge that vindicates a DP right for the job.
 
Last edited:
I know the difference between noise and grain, although I don't know enough about film stocks to have any idea what kind I want to be emulating. I guess my main concern is that while I'm not an editor, most of the grain filters that I've seen are pretty unconvincing and just end up being distracting (I also strongly prefer to do as much as humanly possible in camera). Are there plugins that can deliver a good looking film grain?
 
randomname said:
I know the difference between noise and grain, although I don't know enough about film stocks to have any idea what kind I want to be emulating. I guess my main concern is that while I'm not an editor, most of the grain filters that I've seen are pretty unconvincing and just end up being distracting (I also strongly prefer to do as much as humanly possible in camera). Are there plugins that can deliver a good looking film grain?
Click to expand...

Cool. I didn't mean to assume you didn't... it's just that I see many younger filmmakers interchange them as if they offered the same look. I don't know you, or your background, so I apologize.

There are some ways of getting convincing film grain look. It's not the same as all-natural, but you get it. I know a couple of films that shot partially digital and did add some grain in, I'll go back through my cinematography notes and see if I can recall and find what they used.
 
ryancglover said:
These guys could come in handy. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I worry when I have to email a sales address for a quote... sort of like asking the price of a Ferrari... if you ask, you can't afford...

But who knows, if this is a student project, maybe they have a student price, limited length/resolution 'sample'...

I recently got an 8mm Bolex B8. So, I think I'll run a 25' roll of film through it, just to test it out, and heck, have it digitized... if I can find a lab to do that cheaply... and perhaps for some level of 'grain' effect, I may have my own
grain clip to layer on top of footage from my GH-1...

Maybe I'll get a Bolex H16 for the same reason...
 
16 or S16 have many different looks and texture it's not just grain. Have a look at more 16/s16 movies and see what you like from 60's B&W cinema verite to D Aranofskys styling's.

The GH2 in ETC mode with CCTV (Pentax, Computar), Bolex (Kern Switar) amongst other 16 lenses can get you a very nice 16 look, DOF in camera. Additional film modes in GH camera's like vibrant color or Dynamic B&W pretty damn nice with tweaking.

Additional cheap Lee or Cokin filters like ND's, green, orange, red for BW add texture that post can't simulate imo.

CC in post will get you even closer.
 
Last edited:
Don't give up on the idea of 16mm. Even if you don't use it on this project the costs have come down tremendously. As digital takes over more and more, telecine/color houses that spent millions on Spirits and Millennium scanners are looking for work. They won't act like it or post lower rates on their sites, but believe me you can negotiate great deals now.

When an Arri S can be had for $599 these days, exploring film is a great option even if just for fun.
 
In my experience with film, if you want a high grain image, then 16 is your best bet. 500T (Vision 2 or 3) will give you a really nice grain pattern. I've never seen a digital equivelent of a high speed camera stock.

If you have the budget / can get the camera, I'd shoot 500T on Super 16. You get your grain, you get your 16x9. Sure its going to be harder on your budget when you go to telecine and need a high def transfer, but...if you have the budget, its the way to go

Best of luck to you
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top