Is shooting at 1/30 shutter, a good idea?

TheDingo said:
With my GH2 the shutter stays locked at 1/40th when I am shooting 24P. I shoot using an ISO range of 160-800 and use ND filters when shooting under bright sunlight.
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Ditto. I use 1/60 on the Canon's (don't trust 1/50 with the flicker some light sources can cause), and then 1/120 for 60p shooting. I would use super-high shutter speeds for some effect during an action scene or similar, but that's it.

A lot of people use high shutter to compensate for shooting without NDs...I hate, hate, HATE, the way it looks so I shoot with ND filters outdoors always to keep my shutter speed where it needs to be.
 
Gary Huff said:
I would use super-high shutter speeds for some effect during an action scene or similar, but that's it.
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Isn't changing the shutter speed of your film technically a "sin" against the film "rules"? I understand that they're just guidelines and such, but isn't switching shutter speeds similar to breaking the line of action in over the shoulder dialogue shots (180 degree rule)?
 
MarkyMarkV said:
Isn't changing the shutter speed of your film technically a "sin" against the film "rules"? I understand that they're just guidelines and such, but isn't switching shutter speeds similar to breaking the line of action in over the shoulder dialogue shots (180 degree rule)?
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I've never heard that. It gives a particular staccato "look" to the motion that I've seen used for action scenes before, while less frantic scenes have more typical motion. I don't see why it would be considered a sin.
 
MarkyMarkV said:
Isn't changing the shutter speed of your film technically a "sin" against the film "rules"? I understand that they're just guidelines and such, but isn't switching shutter speeds similar to breaking the line of action in over the shoulder dialogue shots (180 degree rule)?
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He said

"For some effect during an action scene or similar"


That's when it's acceptable to break a "rule". When you know you are breaking it and you are doing it for a specific stylistic reason (see Saving Private Ryan)
 
I just can't understand, what person in their right mind thinks that going up to 800 (and even that is mind juggling bulls*%t with any DSLR made in the last... well, ever.), will bring in any severe amount of noise to deter a person to switch off the movie and burn it. Moronic, to say the least...
 
Well I showed him the Public Enemies effect. It's pretty much the scenes in PE that are night, right? That's where I noticed it more. There are 'smears'. And it does kind of look home-video-ish. He says that the audience will find that less noticeable than the noise produced by 800 ISO, or at least he does. But I'm the opposite when it comes to what looks more distracting or unnatural.
 
Grain and noise is the single biggest artifact that an audience is willing to forgive (or adjust to). Just because you can see it, doesn't mean it's ruining your movie.
 
MarkyMarkV said:
Isn't changing the shutter speed of your film technically a "sin" against the film "rules"? I understand that they're just guidelines and such, but isn't switching shutter speeds similar to breaking the line of action in over the shoulder dialogue shots (180 degree rule)?
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You are mixing up two different 180 degree "rules". The screen direction "rule" is much more important the the shutter speed "guideline".

Here is something I wrote a while back about shutter speeds on movie cameras, perhaps it can clear up some confusion here:

The 180 degree shutter "rule" is based on the way most motion picture cameras work. The shutter in these cameras is spinning disc segment, fixed at 180 degrees in many cameras, adjustable with a default at 180 degrees in newer cameras.

Moviecam_schematic_animation.gif


The shutter spins at one RPM per frame, timed to the intermittent movement of the film through the gate - while the open portion of the shutter disc is over the film it is held steady and exposed, and when the shutter is closed the film is moved to the next frame. With a 180 degree shutter, you end up with a shutter speed of double the framerate. This wasn't really a decision made by anybody, it's just the way it has to be when you have to both expose stationary film, and move film through the camera - you can't be exposing film while it's moving.

Over the years, audiences have grown accustomed to the look of the 180 degree shutter, and it's become more or less standard. The certain amount of motion blur that results helps the relatively low playback rate of 24fps look more naturalistic.

There can be technical problems associated with strict adherence to a 180 degree shutter, however, usually involving electronic devices running at frequencies that are not multiples of the framerate. Lighting fixtures (including ubiquitous florescents) and video displays are common culpits.

Stylistic choices can also drive shutter speed changes. See battle scenes in "Gladiator" and "Saving Private Ryan" for examples of narrow shutter angles (fast shutter speeds).

Since the 180 degree shutter convention (a better term than rule) is based on motion blur, you can also push it the other way for more stop if your subject isn't moving much. The 360 degree shutter available on digital cameras (including now Magic Lantern equipped Canons) will give you an extra stop in low light conditions.
 
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Well go back to him and ask what he thinks aesthetically will deter a crowd more, a 0.00001% chance of their legitimately being noise or the fact that everything is blurred........
 
This is a pointless argument.
ironpopy already said they did their tests and see no difference between 1/30 and 1/50 on their camera. And yes, ISO 800 is crap in video on the t2i.
 
One thing I noticed about Public Enemies is how everyone doesn't look very sharp. The wrinkles do not show in Johnny Depp's face as much or any of the other actor's as much, as other movies they are in, where you see more detail in the skins. Could this be because of 1/30 or is something else causing that?
 
Unless you are looking at night scenes, probably not.
Slow shutter speeds were not used on all of PE. Mostly on night scenes, and most notably on the gunfight in the woods.

Skin detail is also very dependent on lighting, gain and video compression.
 
Again, IMO, his suggestion that you do this (shoot large sections in 1/30 shutter speed) means you need to hire another DP because he basically has no idea what he's doing.

There is a REALLY simple solution to the entire problem. They are called "lights" and you can plug them into the wall, in a pinch you can even run them from batteries or a generator. They're pretty critical to film making. Go on a "real" movie set and amazingly you'll find them everywhere.
 
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I have shot at 1/30th from time to time, but only in situations where I had to. If I was forced to choose between either slowing the shutter or upping the ISO, I might make a different choice depending on the scene. In general though, upping the ISO would be more desirable in my opinion (within an acceptable range, which I would consider ISO 800 to be in), ASSUMING for some reason adding more light is simply not possible.
All this "fire the DP" talk early on in the thread... seriously, come on people. They are shooting on a movie on a T2i. It's not that big a deal.
 
ironpony said:
Why is the T2i, not a big deal?
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I think the poster is getting dismissive about the ultimate 'quality' no matter what is done, given that you are using a 't2i'...

I do have a pretty 'short fuse' when it comes to 'dp' and the use of that title by people who as it turns out, appear to have no real knowledge of camera work.

There may be reasons for shooting something in a specific way... there may be budgetary reasons, and as such, one does have to ask oneself if I can't get a good quality image, why shoot this film, or this scene in this film... get it rewritten.

I'm going to assume that along with 'free labor', 'free writing' is also part of the picture... so the script writer can be asked to 'rewrite' scenes based on the actual capability of the crew.

This would be the same sort of thing if the 'script' said, 'Joe, 20's, handsome body builder'... and the only male talent one can get is a somewhat less than 'body builder', and perhaps only handsome in some small set of people's view...

If it is a predominantly 'night time' film... then you may have to ask yourself if the equipment you have access to can support making a quality film. Pass on this script for now, and move on to something that is 'shootable' with your equipment as it is.

As indicated going from 1/50 to 1/30 is not even a 'full stop' worth of difference, so the benefit is rather marginal.
 
"Fire DP" is a bit harsh but thats life, some rules are not meant to be broken, they change too much.There was a lot of shutter and fps battles here on forums, but people on professional film sets were filming with 23.976 fps and 180 degree shutter from a loooooooong time and i love the look, so its really waste of time to argue about changing that.
Of course not all cameras are identical, shutter numbers can say that its 1/50 but in reality it might be 1/55 or 1/45, its electronics, there are ways to check true shutter speed, on current big CMOS sensor cams theres also problem with rolling shutter and footage is a bit more jittery cause its captures motion blur a bit different than global shutter, anyway too much motion blur looks too similar to interlaced video which is associated with amateur camcorder look/holiday videos look and that degrades value of the film A LOT and it looks laughable at times especially acting - looks fake.
 
Changing shutter speed to compensate for exposure is fundamentally backwards thinking. You should be manipulating the exposure through lighting or ND filters first and then ISO if deemed ultimately necessary, to RETAIN a constant shutter speed "sweet spot" (no less than 1/40, but not higher than 1/160). The shutter speed has more potential to effect the look of your footage than proportionally adjusting any other setting on your DSLR. If you care about making your film look like a film, then don't even think about touching your shutter speed. The only time it's really acceptable is for something outside the bounds of a "normal" shot; slow motion, needing that staccato action look (saving private ryan etc.).
 
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