Is Premiere worthless?

C

c.g._eads

Veteran
In my most recent attempt at using Premiere, I've asked myself the question, "Is it time to switch to another editing program?" The reason being that I needed my latest project to look as good as possible because it was my On The Lot entry. I edited the piece in Premiere, color-corrected it in Premiere, and occasionally added other effects (like cropping) in Premiere. On both the DVD output, and to a lesser extent, the Quicktime movie output, I was really disappointed with the results. There was a blocky feel to the pixels, any movement seemed to ghost, and overall the image quality was seriously degraded.

My question is, why? Is it Premiere? Or is it any program that manipulates pixels? I don't think it's the latter because I constantly see quality looking images on this website (ones that have also gone through the color-correcting process and have done a lot of pixel-shifting themselves) and I feel like I'm missing some sort of codec or setting to help my image contain its original look. Either that or its Premiere.

i guess this could come down to a comparison between exporting to web and exporting to DVD because while we see web movies of all these DVX projects all the time, I think very few of us have seen those same movies on a DVD. So it's hard to compare mine with anyone else's. So I guess maybe everyone has this problem. Maybe the home-recording DVD equipment just can't create a good enough image yet. Not sure.

Is there anyone out there experiencing these same problems? Who has used different programs and different operating systems and can compare? Is there somethng i'm missing?

I'm using Premiere 1.5 and exporting to DVD from there. Maybe I should be exporting to a movie and using a different program to burn to DVD with more options?

Help a brother out.

thanks and best,
chris
 
I think the title of your post is too inflammatory. Premiere is obviously not worthless; just look at the legions of filmmakers who are using it, myself included. It's not particularly good in the Quicktime encoding department but I've gotten good to excellent results using .wmv or mpeg-2 compression. It's an NLE and not a dedicated encoding program so limitation with the encoder is understandable. With that said, you can either invest in something like Procoder which is integrated with Premiere and provides excellent results or you can continue to experiment with the available settings.
 
c.g._eads said:
color-corrected it in Premiere, and occasionally added other effects (like cropping) in Premiere. On both the DVD output
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Well thars yer problem right thar.

Do everything except editing in Adobe After Effects and make your DVD with Adobe Encore DVD.

So to answer your question: No. Premiere is not worthless for what it is made for: editing. Nothing more. Do all other post in After Effects or Combustion (whichever floats your boat) and do your compression to QuickTime using.... QuickTime. Each of those programs are made specifically for what you are trying to do in Premiere. Take a leap and try 'em out if you got 'em.

jade8472 said:
I think the title of your post is too inflammatory.
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I think you're head is suffering from a bit of inflammation what with all that judging of people's topic titles.

The problem with your suggesting to C.G. about exporting to wmv or mpeg-2 is that HE WANTS QUICKTIME. If you go into an ice cream shop and ask for chocolate and they give you vanilla- you'd be pissed. Don't give him options that aren't want he wants.
 
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ChrisLyon said:
Well thars yer problem right thar.

Do everything except editing in Adobe After Effects and make your DVD with Adobe Encore DVD.

So to answer your question: No. Premiere is not worthless for what it is made for: editing. Nothing more. Do all other post in After Effects or Combustion (whichever floats your boat) and do your compression to QuickTime using.... QuickTime...


I think you're head is suffering from a bit of inflammation what with all that judging of people's topic titles.

The problem with your suggesting to C.G. about exporting to wmv or mpeg-2 is that HE WANTS QUICKTIME. If you go into an ice cream shop and ask for chocolate and they give you vanilla- you'd be pissed. Don't give him options that aren't want he wants.
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Well he did also say that there was a problem with the dvd output as well as to a lesser extent the quicktime file.
 
Hey, didn't want to get people angry. But thanks for the responses.

I know this goes into a more involved discussion, but I'm kind of terrified to go into AE (I do own the program) cause I don't really understand the workflow and figured that any time I go out of one program, into another, then back out and into the original program, that all those passes would degrade the image more than if I just used premiere to color correct. Is this actually simpler than I'm making it out to be?

p.s. the subject title was meant to be a little controversial as to get people to read it. My posts in this section sometimes slip through the cracks with it being so small :)
 
garbage in garbage out

It is probably your compression, output, and encoding thats making dogmeat of your footage. Try switching to a new NLE and if your stuff still looks bad then its your lack of experience and not the software.
 
I say stay with Premiere. We already know it can do well.

CG, don't feel too intimidated by adding AE to your arsenal. Once you have you'll be glad you did.

Arson is right, though. If you want to try something else, by all means, try it. But it most likely isnt Premiere that is the problem. It may be a combination of your camera, editing and processing skills as well as your compression methods. There is a whole forum here that discusses compression and output. You should check it out.

And either way (premiere, avid, vegas, fcp... whatever NLE you choose) get QuickTime Pro. It's only 30 bucks and if you want good QT compression, it's the best way to go.
 
Without putting any judgement on Premiere, After almost 15 years of post production experience I have never met a profesional editor using premiere, I don't know of any studio released movies edited in premiere nor have I ever seen a job add for a premiere editor. I see plenty of add for final cut pro and Avid editor... Actually I don't know of a single post production house in either L.A, N.Y or Chicago that use Premiere.
I guess this is you answer.

Adobe makes great product, but I don't think Premiere has been a big winner for them.
 
Get quicktime pro to make QT files, works like a charm.

I use both FCP and PP 2.0, both are great systems for editing, each has it's strengths and weaknessess.

You problem is all in compression, PP is not good at compressing, I export uncompressed and make QT files in QT Pro... Never made a DVD through Premiere, but I would assume use Encore and you'll be fine.
 
ChrisLyon said:
I think you're head is suffering from a bit of inflammation what with all that judging of people's topic titles.

The problem with your suggesting to C.G. about exporting to wmv or mpeg-2 is that HE WANTS QUICKTIME. If you go into an ice cream shop and ask for chocolate and they give you vanilla- you'd be pissed. Don't give him options that aren't want he wants.
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Dude, I have no idea what your problem is but your posts around here lately have mostly been unnecessarily critical and condescending. He asked about Premiere compression and I gave him an alternative that Premiere can do well. Get off your high horse because believe it or not there are other people here who might be more knowledgeable than you are (not saying it's me).

I don't want this to turn into a flame war so I won't post in this thread anymore; but my advice to you is to be a bit more considerate every time you post. Peace
 
I'm just tired of people on these forums being like "Oh you want to ride a pony? I have no idea what a pony is or how to ride it. Here, ride a pig instead."

It's not hard. If you cant answer a question, then don't post. It's just frustrating because I know how it feels to be a noob on a forum and when people don't answer your question, you feel like crap or that you did something wrong. It's not about you, it's about CG in this case- or whoever else happens to post. If you don't know the answer- don't say "I don't know but try this instead." If you can't give them what they want don't say anything or if you really feel compelled to post, just say "I dunno, man."

And if there are more knowledgeable people here, please let them speak! I love it when other people post- when it's relevant or when they actually answer the person's question.

Do you know what else boils my blood? When someone doesn't read a topic all the way through before posting and posts the exact same answer as someone else. It's kinda disrepsectful and makes you look silly for not having read the whole topic. Here I'll show you an example of what 90% of the topics look like here. Another analogy for example:

Original Poster (OP): Hey guys, I'm new here but does anyone know how to peel an orange?

DVXuser 1: Yeah, sure man, take a knife and gently press it into the fruit until you see the skin start to peel away. Once you have done this, use your fingers to peel the rest of the skin off and enjoy!

DVXuser 2: Well what I do is just eat apples so I don't have to peel an orange! ^^

DVXuser 3: Use a knife man! It's the easiest!

DVXuser 4: Why do you even like oranges? Go with grapes, man!

That is why I get angry. See how absolutely pointless those last three posts were? Even if the 3rd DVXuser agreed with the person who posted, it's like they didn't read the whole thing first!
 
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How do you export out of Premiere uncompressed? I just assumed that whatever you exported, it was going to be compressed. I've been exporting as a quicktime file using MPEG-2.

Thanks.
 
SomewhereinLA said:
Without putting any judgement on Premiere, After almost 15 years of post production experience I have never met a profesional editor using premiere, I don't know of any studio released movies edited in premiere
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Well, try Superman Returns for starters. It was done by Elliot Graham who also worked on The Greatest Game Ever Played and was the co-editor on the X2 X-men movie. Premiere is out there working in a professional capacity, It's only a myth that everything is done in FCP.
 
c.g._eads said:
How do you export out of Premiere uncompressed? I just assumed that whatever you exported, it was going to be compressed. I've been exporting as a quicktime file using MPEG-2.

Thanks.
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U can export avi or quicktime uncompressed. I do it all the time. I usually use avi uncompressed.

With quicktime settings under video/compressor.... choose "none". For avi. i think its called uncompressed mircosoft AVI.

o
 
Well, try Superman Returns for starters. It was done by Elliot Graham who also worked on The Greatest Game Ever Played and was the co-editor on the X2 X-men movie. Premiere is out there working in a professional capacity, It's only a myth that everything is done in FCP.
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Sorry my friend, show me one post house that do film editing and use premiere. Show me one press release fo a feature movie edited in Premiere that's actually not a marketing gimmick... You won't.

Not trying to put it down, Premiere has existed for at least 15 years, nobody's using it. I just don't understand the point to argue the obvious... Again, if you like it, that what's important, I am not saying it's a bad software, just saying it's not used by the pros... Sorry.
 
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The main reason people don't use Premiere for films is because it's not a proxy editing system. This isn't a problem for digital cinema most of the time. There are plenty of documentaries and short films edited on Premiere.

And, sorry my friend, that means, since Superman Returns was shot on Panavision's 4K DCinema Camera, that it could and was edited in Premiere Pro.

Digital Sandbox Owner Scott Anderson said:
Adobe Premiere Pro digitized the footage for Superman Returns reliably and flawlessly from an imaging standpoint. Every single frame of this film was touched by us and in turn by Adobe Premiere Pro.
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screenshot2_superman.jpg


On top of this. EVERY composited shot in Superman Returns was composited in After Effects.

Adobe page: http://www.adobe.com/motion/superman_returns.html
 
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I used Premiere Pro 1, 1.5, & 2 for 3 years on hobby projects. Never really go into AE either--didnt really need it. Lately I have just gotten too fed up with the frequent crashes and slowness of Priemiere. Tried Vegas 7 and I dont expect to ever go back to Premiere. For HDV editing it is just no contest in speed and reliability. If you want to check out an alternative to Premiere just download the 30 day free trial of Vegas. Judge for yourself.
 
Again guys, please read my original post. Everything I mentioned is still valid and according to both your link(ChrisLyon), the only thing premiere was used for was to digitize the footage and for file conversion, nothing about editing the movie with. As far as Pixel Lib., all they did is the Pre-viz. Not sure what you are trying to show me here. As far as after fx, you are wrong, only the few vfx assigned to the orphanage were done in after fx, 129 to be exact, not the whole movie... I guess you fell for the Adobe marketing gimmick...:)

Here is the exact list of all post production/vfx companies that created the vfx for Superman Returns. Next to the company is the number of shots each completed:

SPI contributed 286 shots, Framestore CFC 301, Rhythm & Hues 114, Rising Sun Pictures 106 shots plus previsualisation, The Orphanage 129, Photon VFX 183 plus miniatures & elements, Frantic Films 136, Lola Visual Effects 72, Pixel Liberation Front, 49 shots including previz, and Eden FX.

Only Pixel Lib and the Ophanage used adobe products.

cheers.

ps: Chrislyon, the movie was digitized in premiere but edited on six avids.

Six Avid workstations were set up at Fox Studios for post. Co-editor Elliot Graham says he and co-editor John Ottman started cutting in February 2005 and worked for three weeks on previs sequences. They started shooting principal photography and cutting the second week in March 2005. Once principal photography wrapped, post moved to offices on The Lot at Warner Bros., a suite of offices that became command central.
 
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What's the difference? The point I was making is that Premiere can handle the footage. It was edited on Avid because the editor wanted to edit in on Avid. If Premiere can handle the footage, it can certainly be edited on it. Just because someone didn't want to doesn't mean they couldn't.

It isn't a marketing gimmick. Every shot that was composited by software and not by hand in the film was done in After Effects. The only other program worth mentioning is combustion which wasn't mentioned anywhere in any post production diary or documentary. Watch the bonus feature dvd on Superman Returns. They mention AE quite a bit.

So- either only two companies got coverage on the DVDs or more than 2 used After Effects.

But again, this is getting away from Premiere. Premiere was used to digitize 4k footage to edit on a machine. Why didn't they use Avid?
 
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