Is my way wrong or just like that (H4N Wave sync with FCP)

H

Hiro Nakamura

Active member
Hi guys,

I have a H4N always with me when I doing recording as a back-up system.
Recently, I used it a lot as the main recorder, recording wav. files, and send to the post.

When I go back to post, look at the wav. file that I recorded from H4N, it doesn't really sync with FCP.... as normally, I look at the wave pattern, look for the clipping, but as the wav. file came out from H4N, it has always a second late then the actual wave form.

What I did wrong ?


Thanks in advance for your advice and suggestions

Hiro
 
Are you saying your displayed waveform doesn't match what you're hearing, or does it go out of sync quickly?

I've only done second-system-sound a couple of times now, but syncing it from my own H4N (both from stereo mode and 4CH .wav files) was pretty trivial and mostly done by matching waveform. Slip it into place. Spot on each time, keeps in sync forever.

Or are you trying to sync with re-timed video (i.e. 30.000 fps played at something else)?
 
I meant the displayed waveform doesn't match what I am hearing. I can hear it first, but on the timeline the waveform has not passed yet....( hopefully I explained myself clearly).

I did a project in Asia, shooting 25fps, and 24p, both are not sync with the waveform. one of them I did the post was still good, I can get it done quickly, another one which they shot in 24p, which the audio from the tape is a bit clipping, so... they used the wav. from my backup H4N, which the post guy complaint the waveform is not the same timing of what he can hear.

hmmm....
 
That's just weird. If the waveform on screen doesn't match what you're hearing, you're looking at a FCP bug.

You could always try to convert the WAV file to an AIFF file, that would at least rewrite the headers without any loss of fidelity - see if FCP likes the files any better like that. I use AudialHub for that, but anything should do.
 
Not sure where to do this in FCP but somewhere there should be a "recalculate waveform overview". They get out of sync sometimes. The visual waveform is not usually really a look at the sound unless your zoomed in really far. For most zoom levels (for most applications) it is a little graphics file that has been calculated once for the file. If you change the file it will get recalculated (probably). I keep using qualifiers because even though I was pretty familiar with STP once I can't remember exactly how Apple does it (and they often don't do it the same as everyone else). But recalculating the waveform all the time would really bog down the system.
ProTools, something I do know well, uses an overview until your at the sample level and then it switches to an actual calculated waveform view.

Anyway the point is that it's nothing to do with the sound. For some reason the overview has been offset and you need to get it recalculated.
 
I though there was a 'wave form', as well as 'video' thumbnail 'cache' that one could either flush, or throw the folders away, to 'refresh' various rendered elements in FCP.
(Ok, I've only used FC Express predominantly, but every time some problem occurs, people say 'throw away the preferences'... which works for some set of problems in FC Express as well...)
 
latency issue?

latency issue?

Is it possible your interface is experiencing some hardcore latency?

My system is running about 5.3ms latency but that was after some major tuning and I'm running Sonar 8 since all I do is the soundtrack work and that's what the rest of my studio runs with.

Hiro Nakamura said:
I meant the displayed waveform doesn't match what I am hearing. I can hear it first, but on the timeline the waveform has not passed yet....( hopefully I explained myself clearly).

I did a project in Asia, shooting 25fps, and 24p, both are not sync with the waveform. one of them I did the post was still good, I can get it done quickly, another one which they shot in 24p, which the audio from the tape is a bit clipping, so... they used the wav. from my backup H4N, which the post guy complaint the waveform is not the same timing of what he can hear.

hmmm....
Click to expand...
 
Unfortunately it happens all the time to me... and on my clients' FCP as well, ( After I passed the recorded back-up file to them). Are they few of them have never complaint about it, but I assume that they have the problem too.

What I did wrong , it seems that no one has the problem.

I think it is necessary to explain my workflow, and how I record it with the format...

Normally, I boom with a NTG 2, and wireless Lectronsonic 400 with a B3,
into a 442, out with a breakaway cable to a camera, mostly to a Sony F900R and EX3, recently did a 7D, and on the 442 below the breakaway cable 's port, there are two XLR output, I use the two XLR out to my H4N, and my H4n depends on the project, sometime, most of time I record 48.000 wav. ..some time is mp3 256kbp

USB to my macpro, and if its mp3, I used itune convert to AIFF, if its WAV. I just keep as original, and put in the FCP, it is always the hearing always before the visual waveform....
To me, I have no problem with it, but its a bit unprofessional or avoiding to other editors.
BTW, I use FCP 7.
OH.... Is that something wrong with the flash card ?

I dont think it's a bug from FCP, trick :<

Hiro
 
The visual waveform is created by the DAW so it's not going to be anything before that. Latency would make your audio late not early and your not going to see less that a frame or so (you can sense but not really "see" around a quarter of a frame (film wise so around 1/92 of a sec) so anything in the few millisecond range you wouldn't have seen. If your doing music then much smaller amounts can drive you nuts but that is sound to sound comparison, you would never see it in a sound to picture comparison (it takes about a quarter of a sec for the eye to "see" something (six film frames), less than that and its subliminal).

So it is then either a file issue or a NLE issue. I would get the FCP pref trasher app (can't remember the name and try that. Then I would try the files in some other sound app that has waveforms and see if it's off. MP3 is not a good acquisition format and unless you need to do 12 hour takes there is no reason to use it. MP3 will not nec have an accurate waveform overview at all. It is also not a resolvable format so as a second system recorder you are risking not being able to sync your sound. iTunes... It's probably OK but you do need to realize that these are not "professional" tools so there is going to be some slop that may cause problems.

My money though is on either some corrupt pref in FCP or (more likely) something whacky with the files. I would definitely recommend running the files through something more "pro" than iTunes or Quick Time. Bias Peak or DSP Quatro or even Audacity will probably do a more stable job. Plus you need a "second opinion" and those apps can give you that.
 
Thanks guys for your advises, will give a try on another software or on a window PC.
So far the delay is quite a distance, like more than 1 second, like you are trying to sync up this section of audio by finding the clipping waveform and alien with the visual clipping board, if the visual and the waveform is sync , that would be another more 1 second, I can hear the clipping.

Anyways, I will try to trash all the audio cache and auto render stuff... and or other FCP machines, but if my client is computer has it, and my macpro has it, it should not be the FCP problem, (just assuming) ..... should be the problem within the H4n ....

Thanks again guys

Hiro
 
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