Is my premise believable enough?

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ironpony

Carbonite Member
Just to be clear, this is not the script ideas I inquired before but an older one I started writing. It's about an angry mob of 15-30 people who want revenge on the villains, since they got away with their crimes. But I find the premise just needs a lot more convincing. I mean there are no angry vigilante mobs in real life. It' just doesn't happen. You never hear of any on the news or in the papers. Sure there are angry mobs in the U.S. but it's always a group of violent people, with a criminal history.

But in my script, those people are innocent, law abiding citizens, with no criminal records, who make the kill out of revenge, since nothing else will be done. They also make this decision to follow through with it, even after they are found out by the authorities, and cannot do it without the cops trying out there looking to stop them. Their cover is blown and they still have to want to go through with it. It just doesn't happen.

For example O.J. Simpson is the perfect case, to analogize my premise with, cause it too caused a lot of public out cry, and a lot of people felt that justice has not been served. Yet no angry mob went after him. It seems that angry mobs of model citizens gone mad to punish evil, do not exist in the U.S., so is it too unbelievable for a serious dark thriller?
 
I think it would be more believable if the mob believed their actions were preventing further crimes that they believed to be inevitable.

I'm sure there are examples of this kind of thing, though for the moment all I come up with is individuals (e.g., "A Time to Kill")...
 
I think your premise is very believable as long as it's handled well. I love stories where mob/gang justice is carried out such as "A winter's bone" "the Warriors" and "Red Dawn." It's both cool and frightening to think that a cell of people can mobilize and deliver its own brand of values whether right or wrong. The KKK and other terrorist groups for instance are pretty certain they're on the good side of things even though the rest of us disagree. It's really a question of values and your ability allow us into the plight.

Group dynamics are fascinating and I'm always curious to see the seduction and charisma it takes to ally members to a cause. I think your challenge is going to be in creating a convincing argument to invest each member in the effort. Why would they go along? What's at stake for each of them? Where is the proof they need? Certainly some will be more reluctant than others to go along and I think that's where we can enter the story.

There's something very tribal about gorilla justice that makes it fascinating. My mom told me a story once about the small town in Vermont in which she grew up where a vigilante gang was thought to have murdered a rapist. The man was found strung up in a barn in what appeared to be a suicide but the rumblings about town were that the victim's family had delivered their own sentence before it went to trial.

I would say you definitely have a controversial premise which gives you a lot to play with in terms of values and dilemma. Dara Marks has a great quote about the movie "Unforgiven" where she of sheriff Little Bill "when good destroys evil, it becomes what it conquers."
 
Yes I agree that a story/script of a group of 'good citizen' vigilantes has plenty of potential. I have little to add to dlombard's points above except to reiterate that the crime in question must be clearly horrific, conventional means of justice (police, courts, politicians etc.) must be defective, and all the members of the group musty be sufficiently motivated to step outside of their usual moral boundaries. A ringleader type might help put the plan over the top, but it might be even more powerful if the crime and conditions were so heinous that the members were all onboard anyway.

And I don't think plausibility would be a serious issue if the narrative is well set up and paid off. There have been any number of films that feature individual vigilantes, in fact it's almost a sub-genre (Rambo, Unforgiven, etc.). But vigilante groups definitely have happened, and I wouldn't be surprised if a google search turned up some recent ones. The targets might tend be child molesters (watch out, Jerry Sandusky), rapists etc., but that wouldn't require you to write it that way IMO. A more creative bad guy(s) recipe might be much more interesting.

I think setting will also be key: small town or big city? Sophisticated or backward cultural environment? Plain vanilla middle America or Stephen King-stlye uniquely creepy place?

You might also consider the bad guy(s) as belonging to an evil cult...

But in any case I'd say go for it...it's a solid, if basic (so far) premise.
 
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Okay thanks. But I think The Warriors and the KKK don't count, because they are criminals, probably with records. For mine, I need to have a group of innocent everyday people form one, and choose to cross the line. It's more realistic if they are criminals. There was a story in the news where the cops were chasing after two guys. One of them made a call on his cell while hiding, and an hour later 70 people and counting, showed up, ready to kill the cops, and free the caller, where he was being held in custody. But you never see innocent people form like that under such circumstances, only crooks.

And in Red Dawn, they were at war with one of the most powerful nations, so the circumstances were far greater than in my plot. Haven't decided on my setting, but since it's low budget, it will be a setting that we can do, so an average to big city works.
 
ironpony,
Your post made me think of the movie "The Ox-Bow Incident". In that movie, there was no police force immediately available to handle the situation, but there was a need to do something quickly before the alleged bad guys got away. In the heat of the moment, a bunch of well-meaning citizens allowed themselves to be led by a man whose real motive was to use the incident to get back his position of power and respect. After a while, some of the mob realized things were going to far, and tried to stop the proceedings. But by that time, the momentum of the mob could not be stopped.

So the Angry Mob formula is:
1. Something happens which must be dealt with now.
2. Police are not immediately available.
3. Some power hungry person jumps in to stir the pot, and lead others to action.
4. As things progress, the leader takes things further than the followers thought they would go (but they now feel obligated to continue).

-- My 2 cents worth anyhow:smile:
Ken
 
Well in my premise the real crooks have already legally gotten away with murder, and will murder again. The angry mob knows this so they have to kill them before it happens. So the question is, is it believable that 30 people will go to jail to get the guys killed, and throw their whole lives away, to change their goal. Since they have to kill the crooks and there is no other way, to legally stop them, they already know there is no further than they can go. They are pretty much going the farthest and they know it. But if it's believable enough, I'll write it.
 
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ironpony said:
Well in my premise the real crooks have already legally gotten away with murder, and will murder again. The angry mob knows this so they have to kill them before it happens. So the question is, is it believable that 30 people will go to jail to get the guys killed, and throw their whole lives away, to change their goal. Since they have to kill the crooks and there is no other way, to legally stop them, they already know there is no further than they can go. They are pretty much going the farthest and they know it. But if it's believable enough, I'll write it.
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Unless your mob is composed of brainwashed and/or deluded nuts (see Snazzy's suggestion, Red State), or have some kind of militant/criminal history, it's not believable at all that 30 people would collectively come together, propose, agree upon, plan and carry out murder either of an individual or a group, much less look like sane, righteous heroes while doing it.
 
Michael Traven said:
Unless your mob is composed of brainwashed and/or deluded nuts (see Snazzy's suggestion, Red State), or have some kind of militant/criminal history, it's not believable at all that 30 people would collectively come together, propose, agree upon, plan and carry out murder either of an individual or a group, much less look like sane, righteous heroes while doing it.
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I agree. Your premise would work if it were wither set in 17th century or if the criminals were aliens. Citizens behaving like military just doesn't gel in normal circumstances.

Try again. :)
 
They don't behave like military. They just agree to kill. Once they get out there and start doing it, they don't do it in a military fashion or with military competence. I do believe my premise over Red Dawn though, cause in Red Dawn the kids were able to use assault rifles, rocket launchers, etc, without having enough training, to beat an actual army.
 
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Seen/read "Murder on the Orient Express'? Not an 'angry mob' in the vigilante sense, but the revenging murderers believe themselves to be committing an absolutely moral act, and don't care if they must 'sacrifice' themselves to do it.
 
ironpony said:
They don't behave like military. They just agree to kill. Once they get out there and start doing it, they don't do it in a military fashion or with military competence. I do believe my premise over Red Dawn though, cause in Red Dawn the kids were able to use assault rifles, rocket launchers, etc, without having enough training, to beat an actual army.
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I'd sooner believe that a group of kids could beat an army without proper training than that 30 normal citizens would conspire to commit murder. Self-defense is perfectly understandable (for instance, if the criminals are attacking a town, I'd easily believe that 30 people would fight back). But what you're talking about is murder, even if you phrase it as "vigilante justice," because the law is available to dole out justice but either doesn't for corrupt reasons or declares the criminals innocent, and either way you have 30 people who work 9-5 jobs and probably have families to look after and morals to speak of, going against all rational behavior and committing murder presumably WITHOUT being brainwashed like in Red State.

Kids knowing how to use assault rifles, rocket launchers, etc. is somewhat laughable. Kids defeating a trained army is certainly improbable. I don't personally know 5 people that would come together and commit murder, let alone 30. If you think it's believable, why did you even start this topic? Because frankly, it's not.
 
It might be more plausible if the "mob" was not really that - perhaps just seven or so instead of 30. Easier to imagine them planning and executing it coherently. And covertly...
 
I didn't say I believed my premise, I just believe it over Red Dawn. I believe 30 people could conspire to murder over teens being able to defeat the trained, Soviet Army. Perhaps if the teens were from a military school, that would be better. But for my premise, I could go with 7-10 citizens, who would be willing to throw away their lives and loved ones, for the cause, if that sounds plausible enough. I just thought if I had 30 that makes for more action.
 
ironpony said:
But I find the premise just needs a lot more convincing. I mean there are no angry vigilante mobs in real life. It' just doesn't happen. You never hear of any on the news or in the papers. Sure there are angry mobs in the U.S. but it's always a group of violent people, with a criminal history.
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Err... Lynch mobs, the KKK... vigilante mobs are not without precedent in the 'real world'.
 
It might be more believable if the intent isn't to murder, just to scare the individual or beat the pulp out of them, but then something goes wrong (as it so often does in those situations) and the person ultimately dies.
 
I keep thinking of movies like "Sneakers" (Robert Redford), which wasn't about a group of ordinary citizens, but it was a semi-informally organized group that did a sort of 'vigilante intelligence gathering' thing. Or The Italian Job, which while it was a group of ultra sophisticated thieves, there was a very strong vigilante justice aspect to the main plotline (getting back at the Edward Norton character). In each case a small number of highly skilled, highly (yet informally) organized people. That might make a good template: citizens against a terrible local crime, but highly select ones. Like the town computer geek, the town gun expert, the town architect (for break-in strategy), the town rich guy (for finance) etc.

FWIW
 
Michael Traven said:
Unless your mob is composed of brainwashed and/or deluded nuts (see Snazzy's suggestion, Red State), or have some kind of militant/criminal history, it's not believable at all that 30 people would collectively come together, propose, agree upon, plan and carry out murder either of an individual or a group, much less look like sane, righteous heroes while doing it.
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I think that for the sake of revenge a mob such as this would never be believable. But if something were at stake, and there were no other means for a solution, i think it is completely plausible. And thats where the magic of the story lies IMO. How are 30 moral and good people forced to be vigilantes? I'd watch that.
 
ironpony said:
Just to be clear, this is not the script ideas I inquired before but an older one I started writing. It's about an angry mob of 15-30 people who want revenge on the villains, since they got away with their crimes. But I find the premise just needs a lot more convincing. I mean there are no angry vigilante mobs in real life. It' just doesn't happen. You never hear of any on the news or in the papers. Sure there are angry mobs in the U.S. but it's always a group of violent people, with a criminal history.

But in my script, those people are innocent, law abiding citizens, with no criminal records, who make the kill out of revenge, since nothing else will be done. They also make this decision to follow through with it, even after they are found out by the authorities, and cannot do it without the cops trying out there looking to stop them. Their cover is blown and they still have to want to go through with it. It just doesn't happen.

...
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What if you confine the story to a location where the mob revenge takes place, and nobody knows about it except for the mob. When the deed is done, the mob members swear secrecy (which could even lead to a midpoint and a secondary goal; or not). We do not hear about mob revenge because you just can not get away with it these days, unless you live in the Middle East where women are still stoned, people kill for adultery or just showing skin, etc. But what if a crew (mob) on a freighter at sea went after someone-- historically there was high mutiny against the captain, but you could have the crew and/or captain go after someone or some thing (creature, alien in disguise, etc) that is on the boat; you get the idea. Or a mob going after someone or some thing at an isolated post such as the arctic or Antarctica (we have seen this in other films-- The Thing). Or underground in a cave, or on a submarine. Just ideas, use or lose. The point being you CAN have mom revenge, if it happens somewhere the world does not see it, and if perhaps the mob swears secrecy or else one by one the mom members get killed (or perhaps one survives) so nobody is left to tell the tale, or one survives but we are left wondering if the tale gets told.
 
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