Is it the camera or the man behind the camera?

directinglegend said:
Forget 24p, Forget all your fancy high-tech gizmos and CGI.
I am sure this has been brought up before, but I must reinterate it.

I've realized after all this time, drooling over the thought of owning a DVX100.
But I've realized that... I don't really need it. 24p isn't a big thing for me. I wont be outing to film. I'm 17. I just want to make short films right now. I just want to enter some festivals. and hey, if I happen to get lucky and need to convert to film, than that's fine by me. 28 days later was shot on an XL1s, and it looked fine to me in theatres.
Although, I'd love to buy a DVX100. I don't have the money. So I'm going to settle for maybe the DVC30. and that's fine by me. I know I probably sound like I'm ranting and all, but I don't think I'll be dissapointed when I buy it, because I don't think it's the camera that makes the film. It's the director. It's the script. It's the actors.

So all of you people just starting out the whole film making career like I am, start small and build...

because Rome wasn't built in a day, er - in this case expeirence isn't gained by getting a nice camera.


but maybe it's just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I love my DVC30....I too have no need for 24P...actually, I just don't like it. If I am going to go for the film look, I will shoot with film. We have a sweet super16 camera where I work we just rarely use it.
 
Wow. Thanks a lot. I myself am 16, and have a Sony DCR-HC20, which was all I could afford with family budget (the camera belongs to the family, and it isn't mine, but I get to use it the most).

I came on this forum, and I saw all this great visual imagery, and was completely stunned, and thought I had no chance at winning at a short film competition I just entered (I still have to start with it, it was just announced a few days ago). But you give me a hope and I'm just eating up everything on the Marla website.

Wow. There is still a part of me that wants visual brilliance, but thanks a lot for motivating me to focus on the script and story.
 
To add to the club, I'm also 17...using my schools Sony PD100A..also using DVFilmMaker to convert 60i to 24P.. the best I can. I'm currently in pre-prod for a simple short with a friend of mine and I'm using Magic Bullet in class to CC. I'm still struggling to think of a script idea. But once we have the plot /characters locked down then it'll be finished soon :)

I wish I could afford my own camcorder....would open up a lot more opportunities for shooting around town. But money doesn't come easy and so I'm forced to use one of the cams at my school...the DSR-PD100A...

I've got an idea for a plot... that there is a soccer player in his house after the game and he gets really pissed and starts smashing things, screaming and whatnot..phone is ringing, he doesnt answer...he falls to his knees and starts crying(he is a wreck)...theres a flashback of the championship game or whatnot and it goes into penalty shootout...he shoots and it goes wide...the other team cheers and celebrates and he feels extremely dejected hanging his head, his teammates just walk away...and thats the end? and after the penalty shot miss.. i was hoping to key out the sky and adding in rain in post but using a hose or something to have real water hit the main character.

sound decent?
 
dpvtank said:
Wow. Thanks a lot. I myself am 16, and have a Sony DCR-HC20, which was all I could afford with family budget (the camera belongs to the family, and it isn't mine, but I get to use it the most).

I came on this forum, and I saw all this great visual imagery, and was completely stunned, and thought I had no chance at winning at a short film competition I just entered (I still have to start with it, it was just announced a few days ago). But you give me a hope and I'm just eating up everything on the Marla website.

Wow. There is still a part of me that wants visual brilliance, but thanks a lot for motivating me to focus on the script and story.
Click to expand...

Focus on it all. Preproduction will make or break your film. Learn the camera, do some tests....get your hands on it as often as possible. Find the best possible way to record sound. Good sound means easier post-production(editing). Visual brilliance is learned. Video can be explored long before the production. You can come up with a look that you want, take the camera out one afternoon, nail the look and write down your settings. Then on the day of the shoot you won't have to concern yourself with it.

SCRIPT and STORY are way important. Don't waste a moment of the viewers time. Try to out think the viewer. Knock them on their ass. They will thank you for it.
 
Just out of curiosity, I saw the new Sci-fest contest on the forums. I was wondering if my Sony DCR-HC20 would count as a DVX100 camera or not. I know its a stupid question, but I don't have vast technical knowledge.
 
directinglegend said:
Forget 24p, Forget all your fancy high-tech gizmos and CGI.
I am sure this has been brought up before, but I must reinterate it.

I've realized after all this time, drooling over the thought of owning a DVX100.
But I've realized that... I don't really need it. 24p isn't a big thing for me. I wont be outing to film. I'm 17. I just want to make short films right now. I just want to enter some festivals. and hey, if I happen to get lucky and need to convert to film, than that's fine by me. 28 days later was shot on an XL1s, and it looked fine to me in theatres.
Although, I'd love to buy a DVX100. I don't have the money. So I'm going to settle for maybe the DVC30. and that's fine by me. I know I probably sound like I'm ranting and all, but I don't think I'll be dissapointed when I buy it, because I don't think it's the camera that makes the film. It's the director. It's the script. It's the actors.

So all of you people just starting out the whole film making career like I am, start small and build...

because Rome wasn't built in a day, er - in this case expeirence isn't gained by getting a nice camera.


but maybe it's just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Your attitude on the whole is right on. And the DVC30 is a great camera for the money.

Some food for thought however:

  • 28 days was shot on PAL which is 25fps and easy to convert to 24p by changing the speed a negigable 4%. They also used cinema prime lenses so it's in no way the standard to measure what 60i DV with infinate depth of field will look like.
  • 24p is not just about a clean or easier transfer to film, its about making narrative work look more film like and less like the news or a documentary - even things like law and order are 24p so its not only movies.
  • I wouldn't make such a strong pull towards 24p if you were stuck - there are several cost effective solutions. If you happen to be on a Mac, for ex, you can get Graeme Nattress's G film effects for like $100 and you get updates free for life -- the 24p will make a big difference in your work looking more pro for narrative things even when projected on a digital projector in a festival. The 24p motion of G Film is VERY comparable to the 24p motion of the DVX as it is achieved by the same method. So ask for some extra cash this Christmas, or PM Graeme Nattress (he's a member) and tell him your 17 and ask if you can send him $10 bucks a month - who knows he may go for it.
  • Finally, with used DVX prices dropping and a new DVC30 around $1500, you may be within $500 of getting a used DVX -- just something to think about.

I considered going with teh DVC30 and using G Film before I lucked into some extra money to go for the DVX. But if you go with the DVC30 and use G Film or some other great / inexpensive frame conversion software YOU WILL HAVE RESULTS THAT ARE VIRTUALLY INDISTINGUISHABLE from the DVX100 at 24p, and comparable results to the DVX100A or B at 24pa -- it's just a great way to go.

Whatever your do good luck!
 
I like easy questions: It's the people (film is collaborative) behind the camera, not the camera itself that makes a project good. If it were the camera, why not drop a cool mil on 70mm three strip technicolor and win an oscar on your first time out?

That said, 70mm looks really, really cool.
 
I agree. I come from being fascinated with computer animation since I was 12. The more time I spent learning my art, I learnt that its not about what software application you use, but more on getting your characters to act.

I doubt the WETA Digital really cared about delivering a Gollum (for example) that looked really cool, but could not act well. So, that's where I am taking my craft. More about the idea and being able to get the rights thing on film, then worrying about the film itself!

Besides, I was reading around and looking for motivation, and I learnt that Peter Jackson made his first film, Bad Taste in 4 years working with just a bunch of friends and people in the community on an extremely low budget. Something like that gives me hope.
 
If youre gona do 60i and convert anyway, save money, buy a cheaper camera. You really dont need a DVC30. Go for a really kick ass 1 chip even. Think about it like this, youre gonna spend 1800 on a DVc30, or you can spend $1000 on a cheaper 3chip/1 chip + Good tripod, a reflector/ lights and software.

I have a sony TRV70 (good 1 chip), if you light it right, it makes a GREAT picture. Plus learning to light properly in the first place will help SOOOO much more later. Plus When yo udo upgrade to a DVX, you will have a good tripod, reflector and software, already. Also youre a student, go to JourneyED.com and buy the video software at a big student discount. i got vegas for $245. Normally its like $600+.

the importat think ot remeber is that the camera is only HALF the cost of the setup. you need the proper peripheral to support a great camera. I learned that the hard way. i bought my DVX without a tripod bag or software, and i had to pull lotsa over time to cover the cost of the additional stuff.

hope thsi view point helps.
 
The DVC30 has a pretty good fake-24p mode. It won't satisfy a DVX fan, but it'll make your average audience go, "wow, that's not what I'm used to seeing in a video camera. How'd you do that?"
 
Gs400

Gs400

The GS400 is probably the ideal compromise for a new filmmaker. I used an old hi8 cam for 2 years while I was saving to get a good 1 chip cam for about a $1000. Then I bought a GS400 for about $1250 and what's funny is that people like my films just as much on average. You're right people comment on the story or the angles more than the exact cam I used. Don't wait like I did though if you're a kid and don't have a cam at all. Nowadays the cheap samsungs and canons are good enough to shoot a decent picture in the right person's hands.
 
I have a PV-GS400, and I'm more than happy with the results. Sure, it doesn't have integrated XLR or Phantom, but a Beachtek quickly resolved that.

By the way, it isn't the man behind the camera. It's the man in the camera. Get "inside" of the camera, and you can realize ANY cinematic dream.
 
lpcvideo1 said:
The DVC30 has a pretty good fake-24p mode. It won't satisfy a DVX fan, but it'll make your average audience go, "wow, that's not what I'm used to seeing in a video camera. How'd you do that?"
Click to expand...

Now, let's not get confusing.

What it has is a "frame" mode that's more accurately described as a "fake 30p," because it's 60i interpolated into 30p. It will not take on the motion characteristics of 24p.

It *is*, however, a pretty decent match of the DVX's 30p mode, though the color matrix is different.
 
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