Is it more than just DOF?

I

Indyreel

Well-known member
I've been reading all kinds of stuff on the shallow DOF adaptors, especially for the HPX500. I'm confused yet excited.

Recently, however, I checked out "Batman Begins" for the DOF used throughout the film and to be honest, it didn't look as "blurred out" in the background as these DOF adaptors produce. Instead it looked like the kind of DOF that I can get by backing up and zooming in. Or at least close to it.


Stop!

I realize that I'm about to get pounced by some more experienced guys on this forum, so I'll say this first; I know it's not that simple, but do these adaptors do more to the image than shallow DOF to give you the "film look"?
 
These things shouldnt be called DOF adapters, but 35mm adapters. Because the point shouldn't solely be about gettin shallow DOF. It's about getting 35mm lens control. In the same way DOF isn't the defining factor of an SLR versus a point and shoot camera.

a 35mm adapter gives you:
1. ability swap lenses, perhaps use cinema type lenses on a tiny camera..
2. control depth of field
3. pull focus
4. turn a consumer cam into one that can compete with the big boys.
5. get a good feeling with the cam on your lap.
 
astigmatic said:
4. turn a consumer cam into one that can compete with the big boys.
Click to expand...

Everyone thinks it can, but it cant, it just gives your image a look, that can't be described, the grain added, just gives it a different look,

Its definitely not superior to bigger more expensive cameras... But just a more pleasing look to the eye
 
For me, it takes off that HD edge .. makes my image feel more natural (if the project calls for it). I also like to limit myself to set focal distances with my primes. It's way too easy to setup a camera and reframe by zooming in or out. With primes, I have to give more thought to camera placement/lens choice so I don't waste time later.

For me, I feel like I have more control of my image.
 
Movies *rarely* use DOF as shallow as many adapter users seem to want to use. Look at test footage from adapter users and you'll find that frequently folks are using the lens wide open, shooting everything at f/1.4. In the movies they'll frequently be at least two stops more closed down, usually f/2.8 or a split between f/2.8 and f/4.

That super-hyper-shallow DOF is a trademark "adapter look", I can frequently spot it a mile away. It happens for three main reasons as near as I can tell:
1) Folks are so obsessed with shallow DOF because they've never had it before, that they way overdo it.

2) They don't have enough light, so they have to compensate by running with their lens wide open at all times.

3) They don't understand the frame size and field of view of a movie frame, so they end up trying to shoot with way too big of a frame, which makes the DOF commensurately shallower.

On point 3, some adapters (like the mini35) are optimized to deliver exactly the same image area as a 35mm frame of movie film in standard academy aperture. But most adapters don't have that, they instead just expect you to zoom in until you don't see the edges of the ground glass. But the final frame size that you get isn't fixed, and some adapters (like the Letus Ultimate and Brevis) even allow you to set a frame size as large as a frame of still-camera film, 36x24mm (or larger!) That will make your DOF extremely much shallower than it would be in the movies (unless you want to talk about the rare occasion that someone's shooting 65mm film or something like that).
 
it's funny, I always found that really frustrating, everyone wanting really shallow
depth of focus. I always saw the adapter as a way to get every other aspect of using
35mm lenses. especially the sense of the distance between the camera and the subject,
in relation to size of the shot. That may not have come across clearly. But, I'll try to
explain what I mean, a shot framed with a stock DVX, and compared to the same
shot framed as close to the same as possible with 35mm lens, has a different feel,
other than the DOF, a different relation to the subject.

I don't know, maybe it's just me.
 
Hi there everyone,


Barry I have the Letus Extreme and an HVX200, I zoom in to about 29.7mm, is this around the 35mm Frame size?

thanks,
Derrick
 
Barry_Green said:
1) Folks are so obsessed with shallow DOF because they've never had it before, that they way overdo it.

2) They don't have enough light, so they have to compensate by running with their lens wide open at all times.

3) They don't understand the frame size and field of view of a movie frame, so they end up trying to shoot with way too big of a frame, which makes the DOF commensurately shallower.
Click to expand...

Let me add one more - people don't want grain in their footage. With my vibrating adapter, I was able to see grain at f4.0 (when logging and not while shooting). I got so afraid of it that I preferred to stay at 2.8 or even 2.0...

On the other hand I think the super-shallow DOF achieved with SLR-sized frame and wide open lens (f1.2-f1.4) is very interesting and can help the storytelling when not overused (or overused on purpose).
 
adapters add a texture to the image. that texture is determined by the GG and how diffused it is. the more diffuse the more filmic the texture. this is the reason the SGpro, the old M2 and the G35 look so good.

this texture hasn't really been mentioned anywhere, and it's not something that can be measured or rated. more it evokes a feeling when you watch the footage. you notice it the most when you do wides where everything is in focus.

you can get shallow DOF with any of the adapters, but only the more diffused ones look like film to me :) the less diffused ones just look like video with shallow DOF

BUT i hate things being too shallow.... it just looks wrong. ideally you'd shoot with academy framing. shooting f5.6 outside and f2.8 inside/night.
 
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