Is it bad form...

Nathyn

Nathyn

Low Budget Ninja
...to respond to an Amazon review that's not accurate. It's the first review I've ever gotten and it's obviously emotional and personal, versus being about anything I wrote. First off the person couldn't even take time to put the review under that right book. They reviewed "The Action Filmmaking Workbook" when I know they were desperately trying to review "Action Filmmaking". But obviously they were so blinded by dislike for the book they couldn't get that part right.

They call the book "out of date" because I list prices as they were at the time it was written (the book's been out for a few months now and things changed rapidly). And I talk about DV cameras versus just HD cameras. Anyone here still using a DVX100? Hm, Panasonic keeps making them so someone's using them. I see a lot of stuff in the DVX100 threads.

They also nail me by saying I tell people HD is for the big boys. This was a quote about Blu Ray from Mike over at HD for Indies (I'm sure you all know him). Keep in mind I have a copy of the books as I did write them and you all know I tell people to either shoot HD or HDV if at all possible. You all know I say this all the time because of my experiences. There's other things taken blatantly out of context. It's a personal review. I do make some of my opinions known as others have in books like these but if you don't like something I said, state the facts. I also believe the person reads these forum because it seems they're responding to some things said here versus things said in the book.

What makes it funny is the workbook is indeed a workbook but sales have fallen off since this review and the review isn't even about the right book. I'm currently working on the second edition of Action Filmmaking but I don't want to publish it until after NAB, and I'm not going to take the info about DV cameras out, nor about Pystar or anything else. My books are to help people get that first film out even if they don't have tons of cash or if the film doesn't sale. You don't do a second film if you don't do a first. I'm frank and honest about a lot of things. If you're already making films my books may not help but if you're not then my books will. I'm trying to figure out how to respond or if I should. I feel like saying, "Hey dude, how 'bout reviewing the right book and getting your facts straight about what I said, ya'big gimp." But I don't think I'll say that. (At least not exactly).

-Nate
 
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I would say "nah" unless it is to correct factual mistakes. But opinions...........when you ask for a review, you get one, whether or not you like the commentary.

Have them correct the factual error, or ask them to pull the review.
 
It's on Amazon so I doubt the person who wrote it cares about the facts as I think they specifically wrote it to make me look bad versus the book. It sucks because he takes things I said, then twist them to mean things I didn't say. Here's an example:

Want a real world example go watch an Asylum film. "Clover field" VS "Monster", "Alien Vs. Predator" VS "Alien Vs. Hunter", "I am Legend" VS "I am Omega" hell they even made a Crystal Skull ripe off and man as bad as Indiana 4 was, theirs was much worse. If you ask me that's what's wrong with indie films today. THEY ARE TRIEING TO TRICK PEOPLE INTO BUYING/RENTING THEM.
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I never told anyone to make clones of Hollywood films. You all know I'm very big on genre. I'm a genre filmmaker and love genre, but I believe you can use genre as a great way to make a name for yourself because your audience is built in. But I never tell people to rip off Hollywood film. Many Hollywood films inspire me but by the time I make a film it's totally different. i just mention in another post how "Kiss of the Dragon" inspired "Wages of Sin" but the films are not the same. Some of the inspiration for "Divinity" came from "Basic Instinct" but the films are not nearly the same.

-Nate
 
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That sucks. But at this point, I don't think there is anything that can be done. Maybe contact Amazon and just have it pulled?
 
This is the kind of mindset that concerns me about those in the arts (writing, photography, film, etc).

Okay, so he's referring to the wrong book - that's fine. You can complain about that and have Amazon pull it down, but you are defending all points on a very personal level. Learn how to take critiques, well constructed, helpful or absolutely distasteful. How can you release products (books and films) and then not be able to handle the bad review of ONE person?

Why would it affect the sales of your book? Your Action Filmmaking Micro Budget book has ZERO reviews. If anything it would affect sales of the workbook, because that is where it is posted. I think it's just a coincidence and your book is just losing sales, period.

I find it hard to believe that he didn't comment on your grammar. You don't "sale" a film, you SELL it.

You're in an industry where people are just flat out rude - getting emotional and responding to his review is pretty juvenile.

-Kegan
 
I can take a critique. This wasn't a critique it was a slam. My films have been reviewed by people and I didn't write them and tell them to take the review down. I'm responding to the fact some (a lot) of the things the reviewer is saying is simply not true at least not in the way he's making it seem.

People who review my films don't simply make things up or twist things to make it look like I something their not. They simply say I liked this and not that. Kung Fu Cinema ran my last film through the mud and I didn't write them an angry letter or ask for it to be taken down. And I never said I was going to have the review taken down, that was Doc Bernard's suggestion which I understand his point, but it's not something I'm going to do. But I have been thinking about responding and letting him know he's incorrect on several points about what's in my book.

As for the "sales", I believe it hurt sales on "The Action Filmmaking Workbook" (haven't seen an order since this review went up) not "Action Filmmaking" which indeed is still going pretty good.

-Nate
 
Nathyn said:
...to respond to an Amazon review that's not accurate. It's the first review I've ever gotten and it's obviously emotional and personal, versus being about anything I wrote. First off the person couldn't even take time to put the review under that right book. They reviewed "The Action Filmmaking Workbook" when I know they were desperately trying to review "Action Filmmaking". But obviously they were so blinded by dislike for the book they couldn't get that part right.

They call the book "out of date" because I list prices as they were at the time it was written (the book's been out for a few months now and things changed rapidly). And I talk about DV cameras versus just HD cameras. Anyone here still using a DVX100? Hm, Panasonic keeps making them so someone's using them. I see a lot of stuff in the DVX100 threads.

They also nail me by saying I tell people HD is for the big boys. This was a quote about Blu Ray from Mike over at HD for Indies (I'm sure you all know him). Keep in mind I have a copy of the books as I did write them and you all know I tell people to either shoot HD or HDV if at all possible. You all know I say this all the time because of my experiences. There's other things taken blatantly out of context. It's a personal review. I do make some of my opinions known as others have in books like these but if you don't like something I said, state the facts. I also believe the person reads these forum because it seems they're responding to some things said here versus things said in the book.

What makes it funny is the workbook is indeed a workbook but sales have fallen off since this review and the review isn't even about the right book. I'm currently working on the second edition of Action Filmmaking but I don't want to publish it until after NAB, and I'm not going to take the info about DV cameras out, nor about Pystar or anything else. My books are to help people get that first film out even if they don't have tons of cash or if the film doesn't sale. You don't do a second film if you don't do a first. I'm frank and honest about a lot of things. If you're already making films my books may not help but if you're not then my books will. I'm trying to figure out how to respond or if I should. I feel like saying, "Hey dude, how 'bout reviewing the right book and getting your facts straight about what I said, ya'big gimp." But I don't think I'll say that. (At least not exactly).

-Nate
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What does pystar have to do with Action filmmaking?
 
It was a cheap computer that could run the Mac OS and Windows so I just mentioned it to people. At the time the cheapest was $399 now it's $599 or something. I was telling readers how to put a system together on the cheap and simply mentioned it.

-Nate
 
I don't think it is bad form to point out all of his factual errors. Just try and be un-emotional about it. Everyone is allowed their opinion. But saying he doesn't like your book because it says A, B, and C when it does is not the same as saying your book sucks because it says X, Y, and Z when it does not.

Just be diplomatic, otherwise it makes you look bad.
 
This is what I was thinking of saying as I don't think this is too emotional:

"I understand this reviewer knows me from a filmmaking forum. Many of the comments made in this review are based on things I've said the forum but not in this book. Most of (if any) of the things he says are in "The Action Filmmaking Workbook" are not there. In fact the workbook has a "look inside" so you can see what's actually there. It's been created solely to help filmmakers organize.

Some of the info he talks about are things I mention in my other book and he still doesn't get it right. I never tell anyone to clone Hollywood films but I do tell people to pay attention their genres and what others are doing. I tell people they can use genre to tell "YOUR OWN STORY". I do mention tactics used by other companies but that in itself is NOT promotion of said tactic. It's called full disclosure and being honest with my reader about my thought and what is happening on the business side of things. Some distributors triple book. I mention that too but I don't promote it, in fact I tell up and coming filmmakers to watch out for this tactic. It's not up to anyone but the reader how they want to make their film so I, (and certainly not you), don't have the right to tell them otherwise. Why are you afraid of the reader knowing what really goes on in the industry. Why are you afraid of letting them chose?

When I wrote this book the computers mentioned were $399 now they've gone up. As for "White Box Macs" I don't "permit" anything, they make them so I tell people about them and at this time they are not illegal.

For the record I do mention "The Passion of the Christ" as well as "Terminator" and "El Mariachi". I thought T1 was boring as hell, but did one of my college papers on my favorite one of the series, T2. The one almost everyone says was better than one. I notice you only mention that I enjoyed T3. Shame on you. And supposed I love T3 more than any other movie ever, what that got to do with the film the reader is making?

This person has personal issues with me and should not stop you (the consumer) from buying a great book that will help you organize your thoughts and help you start on your project. Please click on the "look inside" to see what the book really has in it. It's a workbook and so far it's the only one of it's kind. Kindly, take a look for yourself and make your own decision based on whether it's something you need or not."

-Nate
 
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To the degree that the review is factually inaccurate I think you should pursue having the review pulled, or at least see if he can be contacted and offered an opportunity to correct factual errors while still giving his honest opinion.

FWIW I suggest that you don't recommend or refer to Mac-clone type machines. Apple has never allowed any such hardware to stay long on the market without directing a lawsuit at the manufacturers, and it doesn't make you look particularly good to recommend hardware that is probably illegal and will almost certainly be pulled from the market, maybe the day after someone decides to follow your recommendation to buy it.

*edit*

^ having read that, I would *not* advise you to post it as a response. Reading what looks like the beginning of a back-and-forth personal argument would not encourage me to buy the book were I a shopper reading this on the site.
 
That's my big problem right there. I don't want people coming into it with any concept of what the book is or isn't. The book should be just what it is.

-Nate
 
Nathyn said:
This is what I was thinking of saying as I don't think this is too emotional:

"I understand this reviewer knows me from a filmmaking forum. Many of the comments made in this review are based on things I've said the forum but not in this book. Most of (if any) of the things he says are in "The Action Filmmaking Workbook" are not there. In fact the workbook has a "look inside" so you can see what's actually there. It's been created solely to help filmmakers organize.

Some of the info he talks about are things I mention in my other book and he still doesn't get it right. I never tell anyone to clone Hollywood films but I do tell people to pay attention their genres and what others are doing. I tell people they can use genre to tell "YOUR OWN STORY". I do mention tactics used by other companies but that in itself is NOT promotion of said tactic. It's called full disclosure and being honest with my reader about my thought and what is happening on the business side of things. Some distributors triple book. I mention that too but I don't promote it, in fact I tell up and coming filmmakers to watch out for this tactic. It's not up to anyone but the reader how they want to make their film so I, (and certainly not you), don't have the right to tell them otherwise. Why are you afraid of the reader knowing what really goes on in the industry. Why are you afraid of letting them chose?

When I wrote this book the computers mentioned were $399 now they've gone up. As for "White Box Macs" I don't "permit" anything, they make them so I tell people about them and at this time they are not illegal.

For the record I do mention "The Passion of the Christ" as well as "Terminator" and "El Mariachi". I thought T1 was boring as hell, but did one of my college papers on my favorite one of the series, T2. The one almost everyone says was better than one. I notice you only mention that I enjoyed T3. Shame on you. And supposed I love T3 more than any other movie ever, what that got to do with the film the reader is making?

This person has personal issues with me and should not stop you (the consumer) from buying a great book that will help you organize your thoughts and help you start on your project. Please click on the "look inside" to see what the book really has in it. It's a workbook and so far it's the only one of it's kind. Kindly, take a look for yourself and make your own decision based on whether it's something you need or not."

-Nate
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are just taking a bad review from an obvious moron... very poorly.

Reading a response like this just makes you look petty. Get the review pulled or suck it up buttercup.
 
Hi Nathyn, yeah, I agree with sadmax about not posting a response. I would just try and contact Amazon, don't they have a customer service number or email? Definitely, try and get that review pulled because it sounds like from what you said that it is misrepresentation and is affecting sales negatively. I feel you man-- and definitely understand where you are coming from, as an amazon shopper myself, the first thing I read are the negative reviews and what they have to say against the book I'm looking at.

PS: thanks for answering my question, i.e. the kiss of a dragon / wages of sin / "inspired by" thing :) i may PM you about that if you don't mind still have more questions
 
Feel free to PM me anytime. Also I just wrote Amazon's community help so we'll see what they say.

-Nate
 
Amazon pulled the review today. He cut and pasted the review in the forum but that's fine. Thank you guys.

-Nate
 
Alright guys, guess what, I got an order for "The Action Filmmaking Workbook". Show's back on the road. Thanks again for the help.

-Nate
 
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