Is a mattebox essential

B

bosindy

Veteran
I love the way a mattebox looks on the camera. It is cool to have one, no doubt. But I was wondering about its necessity. If you do not plan to add filters, what exactly as far as picture quality is gained? Obviously it shades some light off the lense, but if you put an hvx with a Vocas, Chrosziel, Cavision next to an HVX with the stock shade set up on any given set, Is there a difference? Lack of technical experience makes me wonder.
 
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Besides the ultimate ease of use with filters, the benefits of a matte box (w/flags) can be experienced via a simple experiment. Stand near a light source such as the sun or an overhead light fixture. Shield your eyes from that light source (or put on a baseball cap). Then remove the shield. Repeat. It shouldn't take long to realize the substantial difference that shield makes to the human eye. Your camera lens will allow a similar amount of that light to bounce around and obscure proper exposure and color from reaching the CCD. That's my initial take on it, anyway. And I should really invest in a sunshade/matte box.
 
A mattebox isn't essential. I often travel without even packing mine.

Obviously, the deeper the mattebox the better job it'll do of shielding your lens from the sun but the one that comes with the camera works just fine in most situations.
A majority of my footage is shot with the stock lens shade.

I did take it along on a trip to Utah a while back. Whenever the mattebox was on the camera, people would comment to each other about the camera and come up and talk to me.
Whenever it wasn't on, I blended into the scene just like everyone else.

There's been discussion on this board about how a mattebox can get you gigs because it appears to be more professional than a HVX without.

If you're in a position where lens flare is an issue, just shield the lens with your hand, hat or another person. Works just fine.

Is a mattebox cool? Hell ya. Do you need it if you're not going to be using filters etc. Not really.

However, down the road you should look into what filters can do for you. You can't always shoot under optimal conditions and filters will help level the playing field for you.
 
Cool factor aside, a matte box is just a tool. I don't use it all the time on my HVX but I do use it all the time on my D600 (betacam SP). I almost always use an 81B warming filter after white balance with that camera. Although some people prefer to white balance to a warm card to get the same effect. When recording outdoors I really like to use a pola, especially if you are on grass, you can deflect the green reflections. Do an experiment of recording a portrait of a face on a bright day on a nice green lawn. Without the pola you'll see a green hue on that face. I also like to use graduated ND filters for bright white skies. Soft FX and Pro Mist filters can cut that hard edge video can give you. There are a myriad of filter choices and a matte box will help you achieve some fine results without having to screw the filters onto the front element. The fact that they serve also as a sunshade is a given. The coolness factor means nothing if you don't know how to use the tool. BTW, 4X4 filters can be very expensive, most running into the mid $100s to some being about $300.
 
Coming from still photography, I have a cokin P system with a ton of filters. the cokin P is is moduler, a plastic 3x3 frame with an adapter ring for each lens ring size. Having the modular system, I can add any new lens just by getting a new size of $12 adapter ring.

The catch is that the P system is filters only and not a hood.

So what is the net effect?

Generally a hood (ie the flags) is only needed when a strong light source (ie the sun) is very close to the angle of the edge of the frame. If the sun is in the frame, no flare (but other problems). If it's a few degrees out of the frame, no problem. BUT IF IT'S JUST BARELY out of the frame, then it can flare. Take a 35mm with a prime lens outside, and experiment looking through the viewfinder.

Now heres the real thing: the exact point (at 3-4" from the lens) where flare kicks in is highly dependent on focal length (ie the field of view). So a fixed mattebox will seldom help unless it is specifically matched to the focal length of the lens. A french flag can be lowered to the specific point required.

But you can do the same job with a black card on a flexible post. ala: Grip-It
 
Today, I really needed a matt box. I didn't bring one, and needed it on over 1/2 of my shots.

Hard to justify the cost fully loaded. Anything else the camera uses, would probably be more functional, and less expensive. The matt box is one of the most expensive items you can add, of which it's function can be worked around.
 
Interesting answers. It comes down to where do I want to spend the next $1k or so. Doesn't it seem there is always a place to spend the next $1k? At the very least, maybe I will now go with one of the least expensive options on this front. I notice no one saying it is important to have one while shooting indoors.
 
Do you need one.

Interesting answers. and they show something about the level of production.

No offense intended here, but a mattbox is tool like someone said. On film cameras it will hold a clear glass fliter to protect the lens or its needed for adding ND filters. These aren't built in a film camera.

You don't need a mattbox if you don't know why and what you are trying to do with light and your scene.

Lighting is all about control. Control of the light. When I was a key grip learning to light on movies and high end commercials your job is to "take away the light" that isn't necessary. Electricians put up the lights the grips take it away LOL.

When the scene was set and during setup I always checked the lens for hghlights and light falling onto the lens THAT WAS AMBIENT just falling into the lens. It makes a big difference.

Many times I had to place at least 1 and up to 3 and sometimes more flags on Cstands around the camera lens to cut off this light and "highlights" from sources into the lens. And this is with a mattbox on.

If you think a mattbox is on their to be cool. you have a lot to learn.

Controlling the light. I worked as a Key for a DP that has a Chapter in the ASC manual. I had FOURTEEN FLAGS around ONE 5K.

Where they necessary. Well I thought I had done it with TEN, but the DP came up to me and said. I think you need some more, Its not quite right. The crew was in disbelieve, and it was time for lunch break (at 12PM) and we went to lunch. They didn't think we needed to add more flags etc, and said lets just let it go. I knew the DP and said you guys just enjoy your time off. I left and got the stands and flags and finished the job. The DP saw me leave and watched me (I didn't know this). Then he came up to me as I set what I thought was the last flag needed. He came up and Said EXCELLENT JOB. Your learning.

I am now a DP> though you wouldn't know me unless we have worked together. Though I do still work for this DP as a KEY Grip if he really needs it. Though I am his Camera operator now and he knows I don't want to grip or Gaff anymore.

He knows, and he follows it too. Once you move up, its not good to move back down. The level of knowledge at the top is something very unique. I still learn new stuff each and every time I hit a set.
 
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There are just as many filter applications that can be used in a matte box for indoor recording as there is in outdoor recording.
 
and notice its called a MATT box not a FILTER BOX

In the old days before special effects were done in a computer etc. They had to use mattes in the Matte box to help accomlish this.

They still use mattes for special effects.

Its does more than just hold filters. Mattes are for special effects and for cutting off ambient light.
 
Sid, I do have quite a bit to learn, and a nod to Rush's DVD series as a valuable resource so far. Interesting that focal length can be the determing factor where flags may be the only thing that controls light falling on the lense making the mattebox sometimes irrelevent. I don't plan to light professionally, just looking to understand the basics when on the set.

Ken, as to filters, I have read a few posts suggesting that color filters were not the way to go with this camera. Basically, yes to polarizers and Nd's but no to color. I have seen great results with warm cards instead. Your thoughts?
 
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It's true that a matte box was originally for creating matte effects. It is now primarily used for filters.

I have not used any warming or color filters with the HVX, so far only polas and grads. Nor have I used any softening filters. I pretty much don't use softening filters on the large format cameras anymore either, prefering to put some type of stocking or netting behind the lens. Obviously that is not possible with the HVX.

I'd like to know why one should stay away from color filters with this camera. Maybe folks feel that it woould be easier to create color effects (or most effects) in post and have more control with clean original picture.
 
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